How Would Everyone Feel about Making Viewkick Purely Visual?

(Gi.Am) #21

@ChinaRep Honestly I can’t see a thing in that vid maybe I’m getting old but I can’t even see the guy you are shooting.

But anyways so you are argueing that non aim affecting aimpunch (aliteration not intended but welcome) is good enough for 2 and 3 but how. Because as I see it it will only benefit me against people who don’t know that they have to ignore it.

With just a slight amount of hyperbole: That system is like having the current aimpunch but having an option in the settings to disable it. Everyone who knows that option is there disables the aimpunch (analogoues to ignoring visual aimpunch) has an advantage over those that don’t.

On the other hand the current system affects everybody. Everybody is on even footing, when it comes to fighting against or with aimpunch, and seems to do its intended job. Atleast in my experience I have a good chance to throw a snipers aim off, if I react/aim faster than him even tho my smg only makes miniscule damage on long range.

(KangaJoo) #22

@Gi.Am Well there are several ways to educate people that the viewkick is just visual. One would be to make it clear that your crosshair doesn’t actually move. I’ll admit the way it’s handled in BF3 isn’t very transparent. Your sights do move to the lower part of your screen but they also shake around a lot and without testing it, you wouldn’t know that your aim is unaffected. SD could easily make it clear that your crosshair doesn’t change it’s position even though your screen moves. If players pay attention to their crosshair placement and just keep an eye out for where their bullets are landing, there shouldn’t be any confusion. They could also make it part of the tutorial if it’s really that difficult to follow.

In any case, this type of stuff is already in the game. For example, most people don’t know about long jumping until they’ve already played the game for a few hours, lots of people don’t know that all the side objectives can be destroyed with small arms fire, many people don’t really understand what ADS’ing actually does and just assume hipfire accuracy is the same as ADS accuracy, etc. Even in other games this stuff happens all the time. The most famous example is probably the way recoil is handled in CS:GO. Sure it’s confusing for the first minute or two but if you actually pay attention, it’s pretty easy to notice.

In my opinion it accomplishes goals two and three but in a different way to how the current version of viewkick does it. At the moment viewkick guarantees that a suppressed sniper cannot return fire regardless of how much better his aim is then his enemy’s. It also pretty much guarantees that someone who gets the jump on you will always win even if he just goes for body shots regardless of how much better at aiming you are than he is. Having a visual only viewkick would make shooting while taking damage significantly harder than when you’re not taking damage, but unlike now, it won’t be impossible.

@Kroad can’t tell if trolling about the CS:GO part. Yeah, it has aimpunch but it’s only there to force players to manage their eco so they can buy armor. It’s not meant to be a main part of the gunplay.

@XavienH5 Making viewkick visual wouldn’t remove aimpunch from the game. It would just make it so it doesn’t throw off your aim. That BF3 video I linked is an example of how some games do it.

(Jostabeere) #23

Now I can see YOU’RE trolling. Aimpunch existed in CS since 1.5, No, even Half-life had it. It is and always was an important gameplay mechanic. As I said, for reducing spray’n’pray 1v1 situations. If you can’t deal with aimpunch in DB, use your movement to get out of the shots .

(KangaJoo) #24

[quote=“laudatoryLunch;57479”][quote=“ChinaRep;57469”]
@Kroad can’t tell if trolling about the CS:GO part. Yeah, it has aimpunch but it’s only there to force players to manage their eco so they can buy armor. It’s not meant to be a main part of the gunplay.
[/quote]

Now I can see YOU’RE trolling. Aimpunch existed in CS since 1.5, No, even Half-life had it. It is and always was an important gameplay mechanic. As I said, for reducing spray’n’pray 1v1 situations. If you can’t deal with aimpunch in DB, use your movement to get out of the shots .[/quote]

Well he was talking specifically about CS:GO and it’s not a core part of the gunplay. If it was you wouldn’t be able to completely eliminate it by simply buying armor. It’s a core part of the game as a whole since it emphasizes the importance of properly managing your economy, but it’s not a main part of the gunplay and it’s not in the game on actual buy rounds. There’s a reason why deathmatch and aim map servers spawn everyone with armor.

(Edzer) #25

There should be some advantage for the person shooting you first… Shooters aren’t all just about being able to aim at your target but also about how fast you do it. If your enemy hits you in the face first it’s only natural they gain an advantage.

Also this:

(KangaJoo) #26

[quote=“EdSir;57533”]There should be some advantage for the person shooting you first… Shooters aren’t all just about being able to aim at your target but also about how fast you do it. If your enemy hits you in the face first it’s only natural they gain an advantage.

Also this:

Yes, and the advantage they get is that they’re one step closer to killing you then you are to killing them. Why do they need extra advantages?

(Edzer) #27

Because they were first. Heck if I’d be playing SMG Aura and I’d get the first hit on a Fragger without the kick I wouldn’t stand a chance. Good positioning should be rewarded, else positioning wouldn’t matter in this game at all since one class would just counter the other.

(srswizard) #28

@EdSir good positioning gives you either higher ground, a cover, a stealthy spot, or some other advantage, I really fail to see how these aren’t advantages by themselves, and why aimkick is needed on top of all this.
Also, you aren’t really supposed to have a 50/50 chance as an Aura vs a fragger anyway, if the fragger is even halfway decent.

(Edzer) #29

[quote=“srswizard;57565”]@EdSir good positioning gives you either higher ground, a cover, a stealthy spot, or some other advantage, I really fail to see how these aren’t advantages by themselves, and why aimkick is needed on top of all this.
Also, you aren’t really supposed to have a 50/50 chance as an Aura vs a fragger anyway, if the fragger is even halfway decent.[/quote]

Doesn’t need to be 50/50, but doesn’t need to be 100/0 either.

(Gi.Am) #30

The thing is removing aimpunch means that Mercs with larger HP pools and/or stronger weapons don’t need to have as good positioning as someone with low HP/weak weapons.

A Fragger/Rhino could very well just sit there tank the first 1-4 shots aim just as good as the other guy and still win. Same goes for vassili so I get the first 3-4 shots in and chip his HP down by 20-40 he takes aim and boom headshot fight is over.

Aimpunch in those situations means that Fragger/Rhino still have the advantage of having longer staying power in a fight, it just means they have to evade shots/induce aimpunch likewise to capitalize on that advantage. For snipers it means that they have to not only be accurate but also quicker on the draw or have to reposition themself.

I’m not too versed in the competive scene of arena shooters like Quake and UT but my impression was that things like super health/armor/double damage/better weapons give such a great advantage in a fight that controlling the spawns of those items becomes a crucial part of the gameplay.
DB is asymetric and some Mercs have those advantages build in all the time.
Aimpunch helps the underdog in a fight despite his weaker equipment/HP as outlined above under the condition that he has faster reflexes, forcing every Merc to mind their position react fast and start dodging shots as soon as the first bullet hits them regardless of HP reserves.

@ChinaRep Well I do believe the game has communication issues. I understand not holding hands and such but quite a few problems/discussions/griefing could be avoided if both the game and SD would communicate their features/intends better.

As a sidenote since you kinda argue that way, the issue is not as black and white as you make it out. Aimpunch doesn’t 100% decide the outcome of fights (the last version did favour small arms a bit too much, agreed but thats moot now). It is quite evidently that aiming well, going for headshots, doing well tracked shots while avoiding enemy fire is still the way to win a firefight (otherwise me old bodyshooter would have way higher K/Ds to show off :wink: ).

(Edzer) #31

Good to see someone on my side. Priase GI.Am.

(Kroad) #32

[quote=“ChinaRep;57469”]
@Kroad can’t tell if trolling about the CS:GO part. Yeah, it has aimpunch but it’s only there to force players to manage their eco so they can buy armor. It’s not meant to be a main part of the gunplay. [/quote]

you’re both right, no aimpunch (except csgo when you have no armor but this is different in that it’s not present in actual gunrounds)

why is why xavienh5 saying “it feels weird as a FPS game without aimpunch.” is absurd

(SteelMailbox) #33

Its annoying that when I get the jump on somebody and hes almost dead then he throws a few shots at me and throws my aim off and kills me.

(KangaJoo) #34

[quote=“EdSir;57566”][quote=“srswizard;57565”]@EdSir good positioning gives you either higher ground, a cover, a stealthy spot, or some other advantage, I really fail to see how these aren’t advantages by themselves, and why aimkick is needed on top of all this.
Also, you aren’t really supposed to have a 50/50 chance as an Aura vs a fragger anyway, if the fragger is even halfway decent.[/quote]

Doesn’t need to be 50/50, but doesn’t need to be 100/0 either.[/quote]

Ironic that you say that because in your previous comment you just said it swings the odds so far into your favor, simply because you shot first, that you can take on heavy mercs in head on gunfights using a merc with much less health and weaker weapons. On top of this it doesn’t really favor good positioning it just favors whoever shoots first. If someone has fast reflexes and is good at checking corners, then they’ll be the one taking advantage of viewkick even if they’re just running out in the open, not the guy playing from a smart position.