The game is already plumbing new depths when it comes to lack of skill. As it stands, the gameplay reminds me of Quake III Team Arena CTF. That’s not a good thing. Barrells are being scraped so much there’s now a hole in the carpet. If anything, the game should be looking to add skill features rather than remove them in the hope of making it even more simplistic.
As for it becoming annoying, in terms of ET it was never a problem so I don’t see why it would be now. In competitive games it was an essential part, in pubs, nobody really cared enough to play full on so I don’t recall it being used too much except on a few rare occasions where there would be a decent sized gathering of clan players who all knew each other.
Even ignoring ET and sticking with DB, i don’t see too many people playing all out and being try-hards. All the things that could be done like air striking spawns, setting up crossfires, instinctively taking up positions and back raping with an arty strike from respawn, they don’t really happen. It’s pub and a bit of fun. /kill, even if it was made useful again, would probably go the same way. It’s not worth stepping up your game for. The equivalent of trying to set up flying wingers with a defensive overlap in a kickabout game of football at the local park using jumpers for goalposts.
Useful, valuable, but highly unlikely to be over-used
I’ve never liked how annoying it can be on pub servers where somebody kills out to avoid you getting the killing blow, it’s just spiteful.
I think it’s required for avoiding revives though and for competition, where it significantly helps team coordination. I don’t use it much now, but in comp play I’d use it a lot.
[QUOTE=Florisjuh;516202]I think the argument that having slashkill in the game forces everyone to do slashkills is kinda invalid. I experience slashkilling as part of a distinct style of playing, which in many ways is more aggressive than casual playing. For example:
When you are one of the few players alive in your team and you are pushing into enemy territory to do some damage before respawning with your teammates
When you are fighting in the front, but the enemy pushes the frontline back and you risk getting a full spawn
When you want to change merc right away (does not happen so often)
When you are out of ammo and there is no easy way of getting new ammo (does not happen so often)
If you play the game casually, usually you won’t get into these situations. You can stay behind the front line as a supporting class, mostly killing the players which manage to break through and supporting the more aggressive players in your team.
Personally, I used it a lot more in W:ET than in DB, I guess because I can’t really play rambo medic in DB anymore (toy guns vs the more combat oriented classes).[/QUOTE]
This … +1
I get that new players might not get the idea behind selfkilling, but it adds too much to games of this types to ignore. It’s almost obligatory for them to work at their best. Risky pushes from defence to try and cap the point, knowing you can get back quickly if needs be, makes for far more dynamic and interesting fights over objectives/spawn zones. Attacking teams spawning and pushing together and having to make on the spot calls as to whether to get back with team or keep going forward - it only makes these games better. The lack of spawn flags (why?!?!?) does make self killing less important, but it’s still a no brainer.
Would love to use it more but F3 my ET kill out key is taken in DB…
No running clock! Miss that…
No interesting Objectives… Spawn Flags or kill out to go a different class or anything… This game is so bland and uninteresting…
This game is beyond noob friendly and all the reason why we do not use /kill is why this game blows right now…
2 Years in the making and we have a player base of 30 or 40 people… IF THAT!
I wish I could find the quote that SD made that player retention was going to start with this patch (Small Part) and then be worked on more and more in future patches… First off I saw zero changes in this patch for player retention… Second what is going to be in the next one you are so proud off? Match Making? Back for round two? SD is going to pump this next patch but its probably just going to be match making with a few balance tweaks… The core of the game i bet is still going to remain the same… Crap servers, small maps, uninteresting objectives and spam…
SD feels that SW can be better then ET… So far not so much is it is beyond frustrating to play a taped together version…
I am actually thinking SD is doing this on purpose which might actually be fine… They have hinted at it in the past… The know SW in ET worked and is a great base and they said they think they can make it better… But after 2 years and open beat coming in 5 months doesnt you think its time to throw in the towel and stop testing and just go with a final product?
I am hoping that when the next large key release is made everything I stated is tweaked in some way or you will give out 1000 keys and in a week be back to the 30 players you have now…
you would be handicapping yourself if you didnt use it.
Why fight a battle the whole length when you know ur gonna die anyway, and if u dont selfkill ull only be prolonging ur spawn wait. You would actually be doing better in effect when you use /kill
The best players know when to use /kill, noobs never use it.
Except in DB there’s almost no reason to use it in pub and even in drafts it’s pretty rare.
Short distances, spawn positions moving forward, abundance of ammo & health regen, etc all those lessen the need to self-kill.
I guess it’s seen as one of those “too complicated” things, a bit like saying forward spawns & player spawn selection are too complicated for today’s audiences (you know … the moba players you want to drag in, the same people that have no issues opening a map and selecting towers to teleport to in their games).
I use it to regain ammo if nobody is dropping any, join spawnwaves at the right time or switch merc.
I don’t mind that I have a death marked against me because who cares about KDR? I don’t like getting rewarded for a kill if somebody kills out on me, and I also don’t like that somebody gets awarded for killing me when they did not. Please change that, SD.
Selfkilling should be possible. The rest of the gameplay however should make it very, very unappealing to the point of players soldiering on no matter what. Quick ammo/health refills or map transportation shouldn’t be worth losing what you’ve build during your life.
Very good points Sun_Sheng! I forgot to mention them.
It’s not just under utilised, but almost non-existant in DB, like you said with your own words ‘usually it doesn’t give any advantage because DB has taken all that out of the game.’
[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;516190]Honestly…
I don’t know why but I just really do not like it…
lol, I just really don’t like it as a concept I suppose.[/QUOTE]
It’s okay when you have no reason yet.
So should we sarifice game depth for making it more accessible for new players?
Exactly this sentence sickens me so much, because it’s running through the whole development of DB and was/is often used by SD. That’s the MAIN problem with the game. Everything is done with ‘new players’ and how not to scare or overwhelm them, but on the other side the base of long-term motivation is fading away due to the lack of game depth.
That’s how it should be. Unfortunately it isn’t.
You put it straight.
Spiteful indeed when someone does that on pub. Selfkilling infight was punished on many pub servers back then and to be honest I have seen it only from a few players who were pissed of getting owned or those who wanted to annoy someone. Wasn’t extensively abused.
This sums it up pretty much.
Selfkilling is the result of many things and if the result is missing you know something went wrong on the base of the game.
Hahaha… I shouldn’t be laughing at all, because in fact it’s just sad. Funny nonetheless.
[HR][/HR]
The outcome of the poll surprises me a bit that so many set their cross on the upper part, but 30% on both ‘rarely’ and ‘not at all’ was expected.
I’ve already opened a thread about this topic at the start of the year: Selfkilling
With the past thread and current poll I wanted to point my finger yet again on the essential features what made the ET genre so unique and separated them from the others out there. Selfkilling added a new aspect of depth to the game, something which DB desperately needs.
By the way such a poll would look like this in SDs old games:
How often do you use selfkill?
[] All the time
[] No, I don’t use it because I’m a noob
Well since people think that this is what its “supposed” to be like I will leave this convo after simply saying…
Personally I think its dumb and I don’t like it.
[QUOTE=Rex;516227]It’s not just under utilised, but almost non-existant in DB, like you said with your own words ‘usually it doesn’t give any advantage because DB has taken all that out of the game.’
[/QUOTE]
Damn straight it did. Looking for ways to make it useful again is just perverse.
Why should it be noob friendly? I think a noob will have a very hard time, when all that is left is aiming.
Dunno why but my brain made the analogy, when I started to write this, it’s more like a women with completely flat tits. So that a noob won’t stumble over them, not get confused what to play with?.. mrfunky put it really well. Rpgs, mobas are way more complex then current shooters. Well rounded and nice depth.
I shouldn’t be laughing at all, because in fact it’s just sad. Funny nonetheless.