Do you think the Fryer is over powered?

(Jerry-Rigs) #21

Didn’t read Gun’s last post. Bored. Only bigger blunder than getting involved in an online argument is getting involved in a land war in Asia. (great movie)

Having said that…

Then stay on the post topic (is the fryer over powered?)

Both of you take it to PM’s. Nobody here cares.

Didn’t bother reading gun’s last post. Blah, blah, more of the same. Boring. Arguing online is only second to a land war in Asia

[QUOTE=Beebi_Gun;490278]
The thing about the Fryer is that it is too good* for a 5 SP weapon that it makes it too common and completely overshadows Otto and is a very optimal replacement for the Botherer because of low cost energy/SP; making it a much more viable option than the other too; for its much easier to take advantage of. The gap g00n was referring in the beginning of this whole argument, y’know ?

*simplifying it for the sake of shortening the post.[/QUOTE]

(Jerry-Rigs) #22

[QUOTE=Beebi_Gun;490278]
The thing about the Fryer is that it is too good*
/QUOTE]

PS, Too good == Over powered.

(tinker) #23

I now “officially” accept any friend request and game invites (on 14pt only atm) against any fryer setup(so you start with fryer, and I don’t)

I’m not saying you should count a win nor a lose representative for this “survey” or your opinion. I just want to play against players that are confident since this is kinda more representative than random games (although you should not count it as very high)
I AM playing with “other” setups right now, but just not for too long to claim to be near perfect with them, thus pointing out that you should not count this as a “even” game of fryer against not-fryer. Everyone starting against me should know, that YOU have the advantage.
this is NOT because I think everything else is underpowered in any form, it is because I am used to snipers, I’ve mainly played snipers right from the beginning and in fact never changed much about this.

It’s not about winning for now, only to show, that it IS doable to win OR to at least not get overkilled [often, may even happen on a mirror-match]

for me the fryer is NOT overpowered, the reason is on my posts in this thread
If you think it IS overpowered, please send a game invite.

(Beebi_Gun) #24

Don’t be silly now, please. You cannot put words into my mouth.

I know what you’re trying to do; I tell you, that is not the way. I never said the Fryer was OP. The Fryer IS part of the sniper-build, I just wasn’t referring about it specifically. I cared only to make it clear to tinker that I had no qualms with the weapon itself, besides its commonness, seeing it is a special type. I did say I simplified it to make short, if you’re passing judgement and care for order, then bother to analyze what I said previously in depth.

Because, if you care so much for order, then start yourself behaving accordingly. If you do not [care], then I don’t think you have any more right to judge what I’m saying; considering you’re not even reading.

Why are you here and replying to me ? Don’t take just parts of my posts that suit you to start something with me, alright ?

If you want to discuss, then do so in the right way, moderately mature I reckon. Not with selective quotation to try to start something you claim yourself to want it finished. If not, then just say you don’t care about my “off-topic” argument and I should take it to another thread (mind you, it is still RAD topic so I don’t see why we must take it to PM; this a FORUM), but stay to that, not more. I will respect that and shut up about the sniper-builds, in general, here.

Now stay civil, I haven’t disrespected you nor anyone else in the thread. You can pass your judgement without side-comments. Thank you.

You did say snipers don’t shine too much in 14 Pt games; I agree. However, I find funny you say the Fryer player has advantage only because you are not used to “non-fryer/sniper” build yourself. That goes with ANY build. If I’m used to, say, shotgun-builds, would I have an advantage over you ? It is possible, seeing you’re only still trying to improve with yours. But you can’t know how the other person is about a certain build either, unless they tell you.

I assume there are people in the opposite situation and not used to snipers. If it is as you say and the person does have an advantage, then you should say it’d probably be because the person was used to the build, not because it IS using a sniper (Fryer). Unless there is a little contradiction here. But I digress.

Good luck with your endeavor. Hope you have made enough progress with your non-sniper build; and I mean that sincerely. I will keeping trying doing the same.

(tinker) #25

[QUOTE=Beebi_Gun;490627]
You did say snipers don’t shine too much in 14 Pt games; I agree. However, I find funny you say the Fryer player has advantage only because you are not used to “non-fryer/sniper” build yourself. That goes with ANY build. If I’m used to, say, shotgun-builds, would I have an advantage over you ? It is possible, seeing you’re only still trying to improve with yours. But you can’t know how the other person is about a certain build either, unless they tell you.

I assume there are people in the opposite situation and not used to snipers. If it is as you say and the person does have an advantage, then you should say it’d probably be because the person was used to the build, not because it IS using a sniper (Fryer). Unless there is a little contradiction here. But I digress.

Good luck with your endeavor. Hope you have made enough progress with your non-sniper build; and I mean that sincerely. I will keeping trying doing the same.[/QUOTE]

If you read carfully and with the intention to send a game-invite, you have noticed the specifications I made (covert)
I said “If you are confident”
last sentence “If you think it IS overpowered, please send a game invite.”

the point is: who can tell you BEST wether something is too good or too bad? new players probably not.

I can say, I play the game since the beta, played 1 tournament and got 3.place, participating in the 2nd tournament right now
I’m one of the veterans as it seems. And I say the fryer is NOT OP- not even near to it

one important thing to be said
what defines something as “too good” or overpowered
for me it is the fact, that using this something gives you an unfair advantage, thus winning against more advanced players (that AREN’T using that something) is easy. or at least not too hard

there are some other things that would need an upgrade(e.g. petes headshot, spud rocket… ), but the problem IS, that most players play snipers or everything else sniper-like
I don’t want to repeat over and over, wrote this in previous posts

I expect(ed) other veteran players mainly to start a game with a fryer setup against me, and those are used to sniper setups, I played the tournaments, there are only a few rly good players (while most good players are “veterans”) that play other setups, and those could just join “my side” - to demonstrate, that the fryer is NOT OP - or “too good”

now, I actually expected YOU to start a game against me, since you are so confident, that the fryer is “too good”
now you might say, you are not used to fryer, but then again : where is your “reason” to claim (and strongly defend) that it IS “too good”

  • you either ARE playing with fryer and often win
  • or you are NOT playing with fryer, and lose against fryer
    (well, there are mainly those 2 options that make sense if you say “it is too good”)

If you ARE winning, it is most likely that you ARE used to it (and saying you aren’t would be a lie)
if you don’t win with other setups against the fryer - how could I know that the other players aren’t just better than you. [you said somewhere, that you don’t think you are one of the upper-class players (roughly, too lazy to search for your exact words)]

So again, it is just “logic” at this point

who might claim (with a reason) that the fryer is OP or “too good” ?

  1. players that play with the fryer and often/most of the time win, even against “advanced players”*
  2. players that don’t play with the fryer and lose >80% against fryer

any fryer vs fryer is at this point a mirror, the more advanced player wins(most of the time)

  • advanced players often ARE veterans, most of them ARE 90% playing fryer. there are only a few that are rly used to anything else.

while the first player might just be more skilled, and the 2nd player loses due to a lack of skill
If you play against me with fryer, winning should be easy at ANY point.

If it IS “too good” (or even OP) then it brings you an “unfair advantage” [(my) definition of “too good”]
so you either are not used to fryer setups and play against someone who is not used to other setups, the fryer brings you the advantage and you start with an advantage
or you are used fryer setups, the fryer gives you an extra advantage and you play against me (not used to other setups)

so actually, what you find so funny, is just logic
so for the third time to make it RLY clear

I invited players that are confident and think the weapon is “too good” or Overpowered at the first point.

I am not used to other setups
whoever starts a game against me WITH the fryer, saying that it IS “too good” (and thus needs a balance-change) - no matter how used (or not used) you are to the fryer - you HAVE the fryer - the “too good” weapon, what gives you an advantage (or SHOULD give you an advantage)

and I don’t think someone without the intention to show, that it is too good starts a game against me. (would not make sense?) [they - in fact- would not have the explained advantage]

still waiting for game invites

with friendly regards
tinker

(g00n) #26

the fryer comes out more in games of 20 or 26pt squads using a mixture of toons that stop you getting into a good position to attack it especially if player is good to just to keep it in an annoying range (and help with gus squirter especially with juan) that always gives killing blow (jerry-rigs is bloody good at it).
One of the reasons I started the topic is to keep consistency of weapons. You look at the uzi and the other smg they are same squad point but slightly one square longer than other and very similar damage. The LMG and minigun -one concentrated short range dam other more long were similar at one time until till the upgrade to energy 7 for mini with more damage (which makes lights and Mediums a bit lame to fire it). Otto and fryer just seems to big a gap to be in same squad point.
Last year at this time it was the botherer before the introduction of fryer. But that was mainly due to the massive gap of otto and botherer, and the use with Juan.
As the game hopefully expands further the more I think squad points should be on toons than the weapons they hold. Weapons should be graded in groups and they either lower or rise the squad point so balance can be consistent at all levels.

(tinker) #27

[QUOTE=g00n;490776]the fryer comes out more in games of 20 or 26pt squads using a mixture of toons that stop you getting into a good position to attack it especially if player is good to just to keep it in an annoying range (and help with gus squirter especially with juan) that always gives killing blow (jerry-rigs is bloody good at it).
One of the reasons I started the topic is to keep consistency of weapons. You look at the uzi and the other smg they are same squad point but slightly one square longer than other and very similar damage. The LMG and minigun -one concentrated short range dam other more long were similar at one time until till the upgrade to energy 7 for mini with more damage (which makes lights and Mediums a bit lame to fire it). Otto and fryer just seems to big a gap to be in same squad point.
Last year at this time it was the botherer before the introduction of fryer. But that was mainly due to the massive gap of otto and botherer, and the use with Juan.
As the game hopefully expands further the more I think squad points should be on toons than the weapons they hold. Weapons should be graded in groups and they either lower or rise the squad point so balance can be consistent at all levels.[/QUOTE]

well actually the fryer has (and any other 5squad point weapon) more power in 14 and 26 pt matches, while in 20pt matches you have to decide, wether you want weapon damage or ability power (4 units or 5)
adding the fryer (or other 5 squad point weapons) cuts off 1 unit, and a 5-unit team that kills 1 of your units, without giving you the chance to kill one of his, gives him the wayyy upper hand (3 against 5 is always hard)
so in 20 pt it Is a trade-off (right word I hope) - so it does not shine in 20 pt anyways
beebe_gun agrees, that the snipers also don’t shine in 14 pt (and you also don’t mention them on your “shine”)

so it (fryer) seems only to be shining at 26 pt - and people say, it is “too good” (some even claim, it was OP )

  • while people half a year earlier nagged, that everything people say only relates to 14 pt games, now a lot is related only to 26pt games -

fact is:
you pick fryer, and everything left actually has to fit to that setup
you are pretty much driven to a setup consistent of
mme. LaHacque / Juan
gus / kate
dave

you in fact criticize that people pick a fryer and build up a setup around it.
but THIS is just the best way to do it. it is a good strategy

  • picking 1 thing and pick the rest depending on the 1st
    You follow a certain strategy.

the problem atm. is that there aren’t many 26 pt setups right now that are good. and nobody is rly interested in searching for 1
but nagging about picking toons to synergize with each other doesn’t seem right for me either.

but for now, debuffing a weapon because it seems better than average in 1 of 3 game mods is a bit rash, don’t you think?

with friendly regards
tinker

(Red.Panda) #28

Hey :slight_smile:

I created new thread about that. Can you visit and comment something?

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/39455-Reload-ammo

(Beebi_Gun) #29

You keep repeating yourself that you do not like to repeat yourself, interesting, but allow me to be short and say: I don’t like either.

So, no ! I don’t think that just because one picks the Fryer, they will doubtlessly win, I said it previously. I’d assume that something OP would most likely always guarantee you victory, which was never what I said about the Fryer. And, no ! I’m not not biting your bait to try to prove your little criteria with a few matches against me. Confident or not, that’s not the issue here. Your quest was to who thinks the Fryer is OP; if you do not have my invite, you have my answer. Baiting is not going to work; sorry to disappoint.

I did say before, many times, that just because an advanced player with an underpowered setup beats a rookie with an overpowered one means it is balanced. You can change underpowered for non-sniper build and overpowered for sniper-build [Fryer, if you will]. This is just for the sake of analogy, I’m not sure you got what intended to imply.

Oh and now that you mention it; I never really saw upping it to 6 SP really much as a debuff, as it’d barely change the weapon itself other than make it less fittable to have two of them in a game. So I never considered it to serious of a change. Which is what strikes me as weird the uproar. But may it be you also see it [the uproar] the other way around.

And it may be true, veteran players may have more in the saying, as you are one. But that also makes me think that with your “advanced” strategies, and as used as you are to the game, it’d be easier for you to see it the way you do, differently from two rookies against each other; or two averages. Y’know, if I make myself clear…

I don’t consider myself upper-class, yes. Don’t know if I ever will. But that’s how I am. I haven’t really tried to test how good my skill is at this game. I probably should. Though not yet, I fear. :tongue:

(tinker) #30

[QUOTE=Beebi_Gun;490848]You keep repeating yourself that you do not like to repeat yourself, interesting, but allow me to be short and say: I don’t like either.

So, no ! I don’t think that just because one picks the Fryer, they will doubtlessly win, I said it previously. I’d assume that something OP would most likely always guarantee you victory, which was never what I said about the Fryer. And, no ! I’m not not biting your bait to try to prove your little criteria with a few matches against me. Confident or not, that’s not the issue here. Your quest was to who thinks the Fryer is OP; if you do not have my invite, you have my answer. Baiting is not going to work; sorry to disappoint.

I did say before, many times, that just because an advanced player with an underpowered setup beats a rookie with an overpowered one means it is balanced. You can change underpowered for non-sniper build and overpowered for sniper-build [Fryer, if you will]. This is just for the sake of analogy, I’m not sure you got what intended to imply.

Oh and now that you mention it; I never really saw upping it to 6 SP really much as a debuff, as it’d barely change the weapon itself other than make it less fittable to have two of them in a game. So I never considered it to serious of a change. Which is what strikes me as weird the uproar. But may it be you also see it [the uproar] the other way around.

And it may be true, veteran players may have more in the saying, as you are one. But that also makes me think that with your “advanced” strategies, and as used as you are to the game, it’d be easier for you to see it the way you do, differently from two rookies against each other; or two averages. Y’know, if I make myself clear…

I don’t consider myself upper-class, yes. Don’t know if I ever will. But that’s how I am. I haven’t really tried to test how good my skill is at this game. I probably should. Though not yet, I fear. :tongue:[/QUOTE]

congrats dude, a long post and no real content in it. again and again.
but whatever, … people say: “don’t feed the troll”

but nearly 3000 words from you should somehow be finished now - so I just gonna ask the questions one last time for you

you just did not answer the important questions.
what is “too good” in your opinion. and especially what does make the weapon too good.
you in fact never made your position clear, what you want, why you want that and on what facts you build this position on.

(Beebi_Gun) #31

Nope I’m not trolling.
I did say why the Fryer is “too good” previously. It is so manageable to use as because it is easier for positioning, perhaps regarding of its range.
It’s a lot more easier to play safe while staying out of range and just shoot things down.

Usually, either the weapons are average overall (e.g. AR); or high dmg but faulty somewhere else, energy-cost/SP-cost (Avenger/Botherer). The Fryer has reasonable dmg; low-cost energy and low-cost SP. It is poor up close, considering the energy drain, but so are all other snipers; only that all of them have an area where they lack on. The Fryer has everything too reasonable for a weapon that its range can be so comfortable to keep up, being superior than the others on that. Mixing to the cake the costing 5 SP can also make it too common for a weapon [sniper] with its specialty [that of being fairly rewarding in all areas, with a plus of exceeding in range]. I did state this before.

Now, I hope I have answered your important questions as up of what I think of the Fryer. If you excuse me now, this may be my last reply. For I don’t want to repeat myself. Especially not to someone who only because he thinks he’s here longer, he can shush off everyone who comes after with different experiences than his. You better get used to it, because not everyone is going to simply agree with everything you say…

“Don’t feed the troll” has no meaning if you do not know how to use it with a context. It is also a lot disrespectful to disregard one’s arguments only because you are angry or disagree with what they say.
If you do not know how to properly have a conversation, then better off not saying anything, because otherwise the troll might seem you. I keep failing to see what makes you so pissed off. Oh well~ one can only imagine.

(tinker) #32

[QUOTE=Beebi_Gun;490864]Nope I’m not trolling.
I did say why the Fryer is “too good” previously. It is so manageable to use as because it is easier for positioning, perhaps regarding of its range.
It’s a lot more easier to play safe while staying out of range and just shoot things down.

Usually, either the weapons are average overall (e.g. AR); or high dmg but faulty somewhere else, energy-cost/SP-cost (Avenger/Botherer). The Fryer has reasonable dmg; low-cost energy and low-cost SP. It is poor up close, considering the energy drain, but so are all other snipers; only that all of them have an area where they lack on. The Fryer has everything too reasonable for a weapon that its range can be so comfortable to keep up, being superior than the others on that. Mixing to the cake the costing 5 SP can also make it too common for a weapon [sniper] with its specialty [that of being fairly rewarding in all areas, with a plus of exceeding in range]. I did state this before.

Now, I hope I have answered your important questions as up of what I think of the Fryer. If you excuse me now, this may be my last reply. For I don’t want to repeat myself. Especially not to someone who only because he thinks he’s here longer, he can shush off everyone who comes after with different experiences than his. You better get used to it, because not everyone is going to simply agree with everything you say…

“Don’t feed the troll” has no meaning if you do not know how to use it with a context. It is also a lot disrespectful to disregard one’s arguments only because you are angry or disagree with what they say.
If you do not know how to properly have a conversation, then better off not saying anything, because otherwise the troll might seem you. I keep failing to see what makes you so pissed off. Oh well~ one can only imagine.[/QUOTE]

“ok”

update: I now also accept any 26 and 20 pt games (you pick fryer-setup and I DON’T pick fryer)

I’m not saying you should count a win nor a lose representative for this “survey” or your opinion. I just want to play against players that are confident since this is kinda more representative than random games (although you should not count it as very high)
I AM playing with “other” setups right now, but just not for too long to claim to be near perfect with them, thus pointing out that you should not count this as a “even” game of fryer against not-fryer. Everyone starting against me should know, that YOU have the advantage.
this is NOT because I think everything else is underpowered in any form, it is because I am used to snipers, I’ve mainly played snipers right from the beginning and in fact never changed much about this.

It’s not about winning for now, only to show, that it IS doable to win OR to at least not get overkilled [often, may even happen on a mirror-match]

for me the fryer is NOT overpowered, the reason is on my posts in this thread
If you think it IS overpowered, please send a game invite.

(Jerry-Rigs) #33

Thank you g00n but I think you give me too much credit.

I respectfully disagree. I think it comes out more than Botherers and Avengers on 14pt and 20pt games (because of point loads) but I think Botherers come out more than a Fryer in 26pt games. I rarely see Avengers.

I have my preferred style of play (my meta). It is not sniper “heavy” but does include a fryer. I can’t say that my meta is good. I still use it because I enjoy playing the game that way. My favorite weapons are all 5pts (AR, Fryer, Spray&Pray, Katana) except for the Biffo LMG with is 6 (used to be 5). I prefer to use skinnies (Dave, Kate, Madam, Megan) but will throw an Ivan in just to handle the LMG. They all have reasonable or better dmg/energy and can be effectively used by a 12energy toon.

I prefer:
On 14pt games, Capt gets a pistol so I can use two 5pt shooters with the right skills including a Madam/Fryer.
On 20pt games, Capt gets an AR and the rest are 5pt skinnies still including a Madam/Fryer.
On 26pt games, I add another skinny but I leave a squad point on the table or I add Ivan with an LMG (used to be Dave until the LMG got two expensive for him to shoot)
I modify my squad based on conditions. Sometimes I will run 2 fryers. Is that sniper heavy? But then again, I run lots of other clones as well.

Bottom line: I think the Fryer is just fine the way it is. If anyone is determined to buff it, I would not fight too much making it a 6pt weapon.
In my opinion, the thing is overpowered is the number of squirts Gus has. I know it was knocked down from 5 to 3 but even that is too much. Gus should be limited to only 1 use of his special function. I think that would influence how effective heavy snipers are more than anything else.

I kinda like this idea but I wouldn’t hold my breath on it happening.

(Jason110) #34

Let‘s do not care about the stars,the electri-fryer is the most powerful sniper,9 range, that far range dmg.and only need 5 energy to shoot!what!My bother R need 6 and mademe can only hit once 82dmg the best ,with frayer 120dmg.look at poor sneaky,he only can hit once and maybe 100dmg but with frayer 140 dmg.And our op juan ,without fryer this guy is like our other 6 stars rubish,but still he can play a multi-role,may a sniper or a melee assassin.Now he has fryer ,WTF! He can hit 3 times in 9 range.Dat is of course too overpowered , 62*3 =186 least dmg…the most hp shield-o-bot 325 can be easily destried in 1 turn.And other guys which have 250hp is cannon fodder in his eyes.but with other sniper,he can only hit 2 .
Now let’s return to the recruit stars which is decided buy their weapons,I never seen 7 stars in the game with pros.Why?They are really really not going happen in those games.Because if you choose them,you have to use 5 recruits,and you are already lost in the beginning. And the most popular weapon is 4stars which is nessesary for group the 6 recruits which is also the most boring thing.6 stars is also not very good ,but is still OK if you need more dmg in 1 shot,and you can only get one 6 star weapon.Now let’s talk about the 5 star weapons ,there are a lot of them which is very balance,besides the electri-fryer which I have discuss about it and you can have 2 that op weapons!

(tinker) #35

[QUOTE=Jason110;505664]Let‘s do not care about the stars,the electri-fryer is the most powerful sniper,9 range, that far range dmg.and only need 5 energy to shoot!what!My bother R need 6 and mademe can only hit once 82dmg the best ,with frayer 120dmg.look at poor sneaky,he only can hit once and maybe 100dmg but with frayer 140 dmg.And our op juan ,without fryer this guy is like our other 6 stars rubish,but still he can play a multi-role,may a sniper or a melee assassin.Now he has fryer ,WTF! He can hit 3 times in 9 range.Dat is of course too overpowered , 62*3 =186 least dmg…the most hp shield-o-bot 325 can be easily destried in 1 turn.And other guys which have 250hp is cannon fodder in his eyes.but with other sniper,he can only hit 2 .
Now let’s return to the recruit stars which is decided buy their weapons,I never seen 7 stars in the game with pros.Why?They are really really not going happen in those games.Because if you choose them,you have to use 5 recruits,and you are already lost in the beginning. And the most popular weapon is 4stars which is nessesary for group the 6 recruits which is also the most boring thing.6 stars is also not very good ,but is still OK if you need more dmg in 1 shot,and you can only get one 6 star weapon.Now let’s talk about the 5 star weapons ,there are a lot of them which is very balance,besides the electri-fryer which I have discuss about it and you can have 2 that op weapons![/QUOTE]

this logic of yours makes no sense
you compare apples and stones
let everyone shoot as many times as possible with electri-fryer but like once with every other weapon and compare the dmg THEN

now look at the numbers on maximum range : the best dmg
juan can shoot 3 times with Botherer (3 times * 6energy = 18 energy) 823 = 246
he can shoot 3 times with Electri-fryer and has 3 enegy left (3times * 5 energy = 15) 623=186
he can shoot 4 times with Otto and had 2 energy left (4 times * 4 energy = 16 ) 48*4 = 192

madame can shoot 2 times with botherer (2times * 6energy = 12 energy) 822= 164
" " can shoot 2 times with electri-fryer (2times * 5energy = 10 energy) 622 = 124
" " can shoot 3 times with otto semi-auto (3times * 4 energy = 12 energy) 3*48= 144

and pete
2 times botherer (26=12) 822=164
2 times electri-fryer (25=10) 622 = 124
3 times otto (34=12) 348=144

that JUST for the damage itself

the range of electri-fryer IS hardcore INDEED
but if you go in melee with it, its dmg is VERY low (24electri fryer 5! energy cost // 21 otto 4! energy cost // 32botherer 6! energy cost)
24 / 5 = 4.9 dmg per energy !!! even the cold audomatic (weakest weapon in-game) has more than 5dmg per energy

and I don’t mean you shall go in melee with electri-fryer
I say, go in melee, if you FACE electri-fryer

the weapons are NOT supposed to be taken only considering the damage
but considering the ROLES they might be used at.
Otto is supposed to be a mid-fight weapon hit& hide
botherer is supposed to be a mid-fight weapon hit&run
and electri fryer is supposed to be a camper weapon hit&hit

some might use otto and botherer in hit&hit and this will often lead to a lose
you can swap from hide-> run and from run->hide but most other roles for these weapons are fail.

7 star weapons are rarely used because they are hard to handle
most people (like you) think Number of mercs higher than opponents => win
play a game in the UPPER clase and this might turn around quickly

the 5th game I played in this game
was my dave, commander and sneaky pete vs kate madame and commander
I took out kate in turn 3 without a single dmg on my units
thought I win 100%
and I lost
and this happens like 1/10 times in upper class games

same counts from the beginning
I faced a mme with barrett and a commander in 14pt (so 2 units in 14pt)
vs my juan kate commander
and I lost.
the mme took out my kate in turn 3
the drone and the mme killed my juan in turn 6 / while I killed his mme afterwards
and his commander killed mine in turn 8
I remember because those 2 games remind me of the fact, that a strategy game is not won by numbers
and those 2 games changed my playstyle 180°

(Jason110) #36

[QUOTE=tinker;505751]this logic of yours makes no sense
you compare apples and stones
let everyone shoot as many times as possible with electri-fryer but like once with every other weapon and compare the dmg THEN

now look at the numbers on maximum range : the best dmg
juan can shoot 3 times with Botherer (3 times * 6energy = 18 energy) 823 = 246
he can shoot 3 times with Electri-fryer and has 3 enegy left (3times * 5 energy = 15) 623=186
he can shoot 4 times with Otto and had 2 energy left (4 times * 4 energy = 16 ) 48*4 = 192

madame can shoot 2 times with botherer (2times * 6energy = 12 energy) 822= 164
" " can shoot 2 times with electri-fryer (2times * 5energy = 10 energy) 622 = 124
" " can shoot 3 times with otto semi-auto (3times * 4 energy = 12 energy) 3*48= 144

and pete
2 times botherer (26=12) 822=164
2 times electri-fryer (25=10) 622 = 124
3 times otto (34=12) 348=144

that JUST for the damage itself

the range of electri-fryer IS hardcore INDEED
but if you go in melee with it, its dmg is VERY low (24electri fryer 5! energy cost // 21 otto 4! energy cost // 32botherer 6! energy cost)
24 / 5 = 4.9 dmg per energy !!! even the cold audomatic (weakest weapon in-game) has more than 5dmg per energy

and I don’t mean you shall go in melee with electri-fryer
I say, go in melee, if you FACE electri-fryer

the weapons are NOT supposed to be taken only considering the damage
but considering the ROLES they might be used at.
Otto is supposed to be a mid-fight weapon hit& hide
botherer is supposed to be a mid-fight weapon hit&run
and electri fryer is supposed to be a camper weapon hit&hit

some might use otto and botherer in hit&hit and this will often lead to a lose
you can swap from hide-> run and from run->hide but most other roles for these weapons are fail.

[/QUOTE]
About this,I just want to say:we are not playing rifle practices.We are shooting the real people,no one is standing there and wait for your bullets.
Yes,juan can shoot 3 times ,but count on his slow speed,he can not move the right place in time to shoot 3,even you have gus,you can only hit someone after lot of moving,and you can only hit 1,and if you have fryer it can be 2 or 3.and otto,I do not want to talk anything about this shxt.As a sniper,what if dying in the moving to the melee range to do some 40-60dmg?
madame is good,botherer and fryer is all fit her. most time fryer can do 124 dmg safely and botherer can do 82 dmg with 6 moves.if using fryer she can only shoot once,then using botherer maybe can not shoot once in safety.
pete is a beginner role，that makes him not shine,I won’t talk about him too.:penguin:

(Jason110) #37

[QUOTE=tinker;505751]
7 star weapons are rarely used because they are hard to handle
most people (like you) think Number of mercs higher than opponents => win
play a game in the UPPER clase and this might turn around quickly

the 5th game I played in this game
was my dave, commander and sneaky pete vs kate madame and commander
I took out kate in turn 3 without a single dmg on my units
thought I win 100%
and I lost
and this happens like 1/10 times in upper class games

same counts from the beginning
I faced a mme with barrett and a commander in 14pt (so 2 units in 14pt)
vs my juan kate commander
and I lost.
the mme took out my kate in turn 3
the drone and the mme killed my juan in turn 6 / while I killed his mme afterwards
and his commander killed mine in turn 8
I remember because those 2 games remind me of the fact, that a strategy game is not won by numbers
and those 2 games changed my playstyle 180°[/QUOTE]
WOW，you are really a pro .Why not win a game with some 7 star weapons??:cool:

(tinker) #38

[QUOTE=Jason110;506102]About this,I just want to say:we are not playing rifle practices.We are shooting the real people,no one is standing there and wait for your bullets.
Yes,juan can shoot 3 times ,but count on his slow speed,he can not move the right place in time to shoot 3,even you have gus,you can only hit someone after lot of moving,and you can only hit 1,and if you have fryer it can be 2 or 3.and otto,I do not want to talk anything about this shxt.As a sniper,what if dying in the moving to the melee range to do some 40-60dmg?
madame is good,botherer and fryer is all fit her. most time fryer can do 124 dmg safely and botherer can do 82 dmg with 6 moves.if using fryer she can only shoot once,then using botherer maybe can not shoot once in safety.
pete is a beginner role，that makes him not shine,I won’t talk about him too.:penguin:[/QUOTE]
if you plan on posting something here, please reread it at least 2 times, and correct where needed
it is rly rly hard to get your point without reading the same text 5 times… I know my english is not perfect, but my text has a little structure…

the game is not about winning in 3 rounds
for juan it takes a while to be in place, if your not utilizing gus. but once he is there, he is a pain in the ass for the opponent, knowing that 1 wrong move can kill 2 soldiers
its not about moving juan in line of fire, but moving the enemy with gus, dave and artillery in line of fire
it is not about 1 soldier, its about the whole setup
and when your playing with 1 or 2 megan and/or suds, running around with an otto , shooting once or twice from each side, pushing the enemy away and away (into your c4 and mines), going behind cover again, is far more strategical than placing her with a electri fryer in the corner of the map, while trying to push the enemy in c4 or mines with only your megan/suds.

electri-fryer IS good - no doubt
but only with the right setup
and the right playstyle
all other snipers have pros and cons too
but none of them has the minimum-range as a Hard weakness

WOW，you are really a pro .Why not win a game with some 7 star weapons??

and then what, will you believe me then?

(Jason110) #39

[QUOTE=tinker;506182]if you plan on posting something here, please reread it at least 2 times, and correct where needed
it is rly rly hard to get your point without reading the same text 5 times… I know my english is not perfect, but my text has a little structure…

[/QUOTE]
Your right，my English is so bad…

[QUOTE=tinker;506182]electri-fryer IS good - no doubt
but only with the right setup
and the right playstyle
all other snipers have pros and cons too
but none of them has the minimum-range as a Hard weakness
[/QUOTE]
electri-fryer is BEST for now in most maps.

[QUOTE=tinker;506182]and then what, will you believe me then?
[/QUOTE]
That might be happen when you’re bullying noobs，but if you are facing normal players,it’s just suiside.

(Red.Panda) #40

[QUOTE=tinker;506182]it is not about 1 soldier, its about the whole setup

electri-fryer IS good - no doubt
but only with the right setup
and the right playstyle
all other snipers have pros and cons too
but none of them has the minimum-range as a Hard weakness

and then what, will you believe me then?[/QUOTE]

Yes, but I think you know that, currently, people mostly set squad have at least 1 Fryer.
All guys have joined RAD World Cup is good player. You are one of them, and can you tell me how many player don’t use Fryer?

I don’t want talk about Fryer is overpowered or not. This is not about Fryer, it about whole game.

  • The disappearance of the soldiers:
  • Carlito Grosso and Tim Taschman: their Turrets is just like scapegoat for sniper with Fryer to practice shooting
  • Megan McNick and Specialist Suds: in my video, I’ve let people see how you can detect bombs and c4. I think this is a bug, but even without this bug, still very easy to guess where there is a high possibility of bombs and c4
  • Archie Fletcher and Spud Grunt: I have yet to see anyone with a suitable set up for 2 soldiers. Grenade of Dave and Fryer is the good way (easy and safe) to solve opponent’s soldiers behind cover.
  • Angela Merci: too passive. The currently play, most soldiers were killed immediately in 1 turn - although full HP. Healing Aura of Angela Merci not have many opportunities to use
  • Tito Tesla and Tree Mendes: Teleport Grenade and The Trunkquilizer, efficiency is not high and difficult to use

That now, too little tactics used in the game. If 2 players have same level and it is an important match, I do not think they have too many choices, Fryer is the top choice at this time and it makes everything so boring.

I think the next tournament maybe need something crazy, and hope it will make a bit funny <== Tomorrow, I will talk about this. Now i need sleep, hehe :smiley: