DIRTY BOMB UPDATE: Version 20076

scre4m1 · 2013-05-30 08:40:40 UTC

same here. in 2 of 3 firefights I feel like going for body is better than trying to get headshots. Headshot damage is ok, but bodyshots damage needs to be reduced.
Talking about RoF is nonsense anyway. This was mentioned like 500 times since I am in alpha and never touched, though. Just give it up.

Kendle · 2013-05-30 10:12:17 UTC

Or the other way around, increase head-shot damage.

I’m not sure what the situation with RoF is. SD have said the gun sounds and animations don’t match the current RoF, but does that mean the RoF is quicker than it appears, or slower, i.e. could they reduce it without having to re-do the audio, or is it a case of whatever happens they’ve got to re-do the audio and they’re just waiting until they’re happy it’s never going to change again before they do it?

If woll3’s figures on the previous page are correct, and it’s 5HS for the Medic SMG, then that’s just ridiculous, and I guess the only reason we’re not complaining is because of the RoF. If the RoF gets reduced HS damage needs to increase IMO, otherwise we’re back to long drawn-out gun-fights and weak guns. Happy days for the ET:QW crowd maybe but that would be a big turn off for pretty much the rest of the FPS world IMO.

scre4m1 · 2013-05-30 10:22:03 UTC

[QUOTE=Kendle;449648]Or the other way around, increase head-shot damage.
[/QUOTE]
i wouldn’t welcome this with current RoF and spread. this would feel like insta-kill whenever you set the x-hair on enemy head. better the other way around.

regarding the TTK / damage per shot to kill someone: I have played many games with long and short ttk /damage per shot and I enjoy both if they fit the game and map design.
For DB I think we are near the minimum TTK that the game is fun at. If we make it even shorter( with higher HS damage) the game pace might really change a lot and I doubt this is something we want as DB is meant to be a fast paced shooter.
IMO TTK is too low atm, but it wouldn’t stop me playing, however.

woll3 · 2013-05-30 11:15:15 UTC

[QUOTE=Kendle;449648]
If woll3’s figures on the previous page are correct, and it’s 5HS for the Medic SMG, then that’s just ridiculous, and I guess the only reason we’re not complaining is because of the RoF. [/QUOTE]

Its correct, at least at point blank range and up to 10m, never tested when the damage falloff starts,
HS Multiplier currently seems to be 2, 2.1 or similar btw.

Violator · 2013-05-30 12:31:00 UTC

To quote John McEnroe - ‘you cannot be serious!’ Headshots from most weapons seem to be instakill currently and body shots seem to do a fraction, the hitreg issues mean that I will hear 10 or so body shot dings then be dead in one headshot, hvaing been on full health 0.01s earlier. I have a feeling not all the dings are really hitting.

woll3 · 2013-05-30 12:39:28 UTC

As i said, its more of a netcode problem that it feels like “instakills”, or simply the way UE netcode works as the damage gets sometimes sent as a “package”, it becomes quite apparent when there is a high ping difference, for example BMXer(with 200ping) has shot me in the back yesterday i heard 10 rounds going off before i got any damage, and as i realized that he actually shot at me i got the damage as a whole and was “instakilled”.

Ashog · 2013-05-30 13:01:56 UTC

I don’t think it has to do anything with the netcode. This happens all the time also for people with same low ping.
Increasing HS damage more is a no-go. Will be the end of this game. Regarding HS to kill currently - won’t believe it till I check myself. But even so, the body shot damage must go down.

RoF is not a nonsense. Why do you think SD hasn’t fixed the sounds yet? They are still thinking about RoF setting. Noone is gonna give up the RoF discussion, nowei

woll3 · 2013-05-30 13:17:56 UTC

I have to correct myself, its currently 4hs and 8 bs on short range, 7 and 14 at long range with the medic smg.

Violator · 2013-05-30 13:58:23 UTC

In the early days of the game it was always high pingers who delivered the ‘instakill’ but not now. My ping is usually the lowest (around 20-25). I’m convinced that not all my shots are hitting as I seem to hear dings when it appears I’ve actually missed - latency?. With my ping there shouldn’t be much latency issue, but my fps (around 40-45) might be a problem. woll3 might be on to something… it seems to fit in with what I am experiencing regarding taking the damage in one go as I’m sure I’m not really being killed in one shot.

woll3 · 2013-05-30 14:54:04 UTC

Well, to me it seems that ping and FPS have a big influence on who shot first/hit at all, in terms of sending the packages at the right time, for example, for me people from uk and france are next to impossible to hit, also when my FPS go under 50(despite rather good hardware), which would be at around 9-10 players on the servers many of my shots dont get registered, i get hit from the back turn around get 3 beeps and guess what, 87% which equals 1 hit, it feels like im in a qeue or something, “wait, this guy is in austria, lets make him hit last”.

idk if there are any italians or east european people around who can confirm this, but this is just the way i feel about it, maybe SD can get multiplay to host a server in Frankfurt for further testing.

And ofc everything is pure speculation from my side, i dont have a clue how this engine works, and i also had no Problems with Homefront where the ttk was much lower but you could still “feel” getting hit by several shots.

Ashog · 2013-05-30 15:41:52 UTC

well in this case (and note medic AR isn’t as powerful as some of the others) meidc can kill at short range within ca. 0,8 seconds by shooting only to body (no HS involved) assuming he got enemy pants down and landed all 8 shots in target (which is often so in close quarter encounters). Imagine if there are headshots included? I guess then TTK will go well to 0,5 sec or who knows how low. And this is medic AR, not fOps or soldier guns… I think it’s just not right.

In the end imho it doesn’t matter anymore if it’s 0,7 sec or 0,5 sec or lower TTK - almost no diff. anymore - just feels too short anyways.

woll3 · 2013-05-30 15:44:18 UTC

mp40 has done 40 HS damage @ 600rpm, so…

Not to mention that every AR needs at least 4HS in close range.

Anti · 2013-05-30 15:45:29 UTC

A few responses based on the discussions in the thread:

[ul]
[li]Woll3’s numbers are pretty close on the main rates of fire. The guns are actually quite close to ET/RTCW in that regard[/li][li]As far as I am aware headshots are at 200% damage still[/li][li]A lot of the audio RPM speeds on those same guns are around 700-900 RPM, so some guns can sound up to 50% faster than they are[/li][li]On screen blood effects (feedback that you are being hit) only start to appear at 50% health right now. Combine that with impact sound bugs and issues and it means that it’s not surprising when you don’t know you’re being hit or you feel like you’re going down fast. Right now our in-game feedback is bad and we want to fix it.[/li][/ul]

Those of you who feel you are having reg issues, if you can, please provide us with Fraps or some other kind of video of the worst cases where you believe it has happened. Ideally provide details of the team, date and server info to go with it so we can try and track server stats at the time you played as well.

Information like this will help us to see the issues you’re seeing and address them, as well as helping to remove any reality vs ‘what I thought I saw’ perception issues

woll3 · 2013-05-30 15:49:14 UTC

Is there a way to enable Client demo rec? Using fraps or similar costs too much performance to make the game enjoyable, and i dont think actually that what i see, is the same as the democlient sees regarding position and shooting.

Ashog · 2013-05-30 15:50:57 UTC

Anti:

A few responses based on the discussions in the thread:

Woll3's numbers are pretty close on the main rates of fire. The guns are actually quite close to ET/RTCW in that regard
As far as I am aware headshots are at 200% damage still
A lot of the audio RPM speeds on those same guns are around 700-900 RPM, so some guns can sound up to 50% faster than they are
On screen blood effects (feedback that you are being hit) only start to appear at 50% health right now. Combine that with impact sound bus and issues and it means that it's not surprising when you don't know you're being hit or you feel like you're going down fast. Right now our the game feedback is bad and we want to fix it.

Yeah but 0,8 secs to kill via bodyshots using not a best gun in the game - don’t you think it is a bit too low? I’d expect headshots to be that effective, but bodyshots?

Anyways, decide what you decide, I mentioned my opinion so my job is done for this thread

Rex · 2013-05-30 15:57:28 UTC

Assault Rifle spread of the engi “T-Rat” wasn’t adjusted. The current spread is too much[/li][li] Deagle became really bad now. Such a low fire rate feels very strange, so please increase the fire rate again[/li][li] You jump higher with crouch jump than with the normal jump[/li][li] Healing stations should only provide health for your team, not the enemy as well

BomBaKlaK · 2013-05-30 16:10:34 UTC

[QUOTE=Rex;449718][ul]
[li] Deagle became really bad now. Such a low fire rate feels very strange, so please increase the fire rate again[/li][/ul][/QUOTE]

yeah that’s really weird sometimes you can shoot 3 bullet then there is a pause, kind of random fire rate, really strange

OwNLY · 2013-05-30 16:15:58 UTC

For Example:
CoD:BO2 Bodyshot TTK is about 0.2-0.3 secs with most weapons (Headshot the same since HS-Multiplier ~1.2)
BF3 Bodyshot TTK about 0.3-0.4 secs, Headshot TTK about ~0.2 secs.
In Dirtybomb Bodyshot TTK 0.7-0.9 secs, Headshot TTK about 0.4-0.5 secs.

So we have double the TTK of other modern shooters, PLUS we have much more movement than the other games involved.
As the game is now, the average casual public player will have enough problems with that.

And currently we have some really big movement differences between players in the alpha.
I have seen alot of players standing still when in contact with an enemy, of course getting shot in no time.
Then there are some players who got nice movement (dunno, from games like Quake),
they jump around infront of several enemys while fragging them…

So i conclude: we have a pretty ok starting place for beginners,
and a big difference between beginners and better players.
If the movement gets further improvements, the game has a reall high skill ceiling, while still rewarding good aimers with a low TTK.

Although i dont know how to feel about the difference between Bodyshot and HS-Damage in DB, the x2.0 difference is already pretty nice.
But maybe i am just used to games with lower HS-Multiplier (cough CoD)…

Kendle · 2013-05-30 16:20:46 UTC

In RTCW the SMG TTK was 0.4/0.5 secs, or something like that, and no-one said it was too low then. I think it’s only because people are (now) used to the more “leisurely” gun-fights you get in ET and ET:QW that DB’s TTK seems too low by comparison. The thing to remember also is these figures assume every shot landing, at close quarters, against a stationary target. In reality, most gun-fights last a lot longer than the theoretical minimum TTK.

Rex · 2013-05-30 16:55:05 UTC

I also noticed that, it seems like there is some randomness involved, too. Which could be a bug as well.

[QUOTE=OwNLY;449723]
And currently we have some really big movement differences between players in the alpha.
I have seen alot of players standing still when in contact with an enemy, of course getting shot in no time.
Then there are some players who got nice movement (dunno, from games like Quake),
they jump around infront of several enemys while fragging them…

So i conclude: we have a pretty ok starting place for beginners,
and a big difference between beginners and better players.[/QUOTE]

Really big movement differences? Lol,… In my opinion there is almost no or only a little difference in between the beginners and better players, as all move more or less the same due to lack of movement possibilities. Hitting wasd and sometimes jump is not really challenging. And jumping even slows you down, so you can’t do much with it.