DIRTY BOMB UPDATE: Version 17437


(INF3RN0) #221

Even if those things ended up making that player have a lot less HP, move slower, and have less effective ability use? Of course it should be noted that these things would be more incremental than anything. The most you might get is say is 3 headshots vs 4 or a 15% reduction on creep spread at max points. These are just things that give the extra edge in a specific situation, not drastically change things.

I wouldn’t want damage, rof, etc to be directly effected by this necessarily either. Essentially you could have a different mastery tree for each class so that it would adhere to their specific ability/weapon usage. Then you wouldn’t need to worry about making a single skill tree that would force a single play style for all classes when you were in game. Each class has access to full customization of passives to fit their style, while different weapon types and perhaps abilities are available as unlocks/store items for further specialization. In this sense your able to sell more by splitting everything up individually. If a certain weapon in combination with a specific mastery build is too strong, then you simply tweak the weapon itself. Even further you could limit weapon combinations according to what primary, secondary, and abilities your equipping to further solve any potential issues of “OP builds”.


(nailzor) #222

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;436426]What do you guys envision for a potential mastery tree for DB?

I’m thinking of something along the lines of:

Attack:
Creep spread reduction, head-shot damage, ammo capacity, clip size, etc

Defense:
Health, speed, jump height, etc

Utility:
Class abilities (c/d’s, execution time, etc)

The tree would function like LoL where putting equal points into every category would allow for a middle ground build, but if the really attractive stuff was desired then you would need to make some sacrifices to other areas.[/QUOTE]

mastery tree’s for db? god, where’s the vomit bag?!

this aint LoL, WoW, diablo, or countless other non-fps games that use mastery trees

totally hope this concept never gets past the drawing board… not a fan - but i feel that the players with over 1000 posts that don’t even log hours of gameplay per week will sway the decision on these forums.


(Humate) #223

Im not a fan of the idea either to be honest.


(Kl3ppy) #224

Im not a fan of this too. But I like the idea of strychzilla, there are some nice things :slight_smile:


(INF3RN0) #225

[QUOTE=nailzor;436435]mastery tree’s for db? god, where’s the vomit bag?!

this aint LoL, WoW, diablo, or countless other non-fps games that use mastery trees

totally hope this concept never gets past the drawing board… not a fan - but i feel that the players with over 1000 posts that don’t even log hours of gameplay per week will sway the decision on these forums.[/QUOTE]

It wasn’t my idea, but I don’t see anything wrong with it. What do you think would happen? Essentially it would be the same as offering different loadouts anyway, but this instead makes most of the options for diversity available to everyone right away. Strychs idea is essentially the same exact thing as a mastery tree with weapons/items, however what I mentioned simply applies to both passive and active things. Ultimately I would rather be able to customize my class to fit my play style, rather than having to purchase the loadout that fits it best. That’s what this would achieve.


(nailzor) #226
  1. I never said it was your idea. Am I allowed to have an opinion also?

  2. What would happen? People would find and then use the “best tree setup” for each class and ignore the rest of the junk.


(Maca) #227

What Anti is saying isn’t necessarily what Inferno said. Anti didn’t specify in detail what he meant. The “runes” could be similar to the ET/RTCW campaign system.
And yes, very few passive buffs should exist. Nothing should play with things like damage and spread and so on


(Valdez) #228

really havnt thought this one out, but how about having the mastery tree and all that rune type stuff in a ctf style bombing game mode. sorry in advance if this is retarded.


(Ashog) #229

IMO also, ditch the sniper, give rifle to soldier, give smoke to engineer (would be useful in attack).

Or alternatively keep the current layout and give disguise to sniper.


(INF3RN0) #230

[QUOTE=nailzor;436441]1) I never said it was your idea. Am I allowed to have an opinion also?

  1. What would happen? People would find and then use the “best tree setup” for each class and ignore the rest of the junk.[/QUOTE]

You didn’t exactly respond in a way that explained to me what you saw as the problem and you sort of insinuated that I can get away with a bad idea because I have a higher post count lol. I am totally against anything that won’t work, but if I see some chance of potential then I feel I might as well throw it out there. And yes I totally agree that it might potentially end up with people finding the “best setup”, however that’s a flawed system. Do you think LoL is flawed? MOBAs could definitely go without the mastery tree and never have to deal with any potential problems that it might cause, however they chose to put time into making it work and it added a lot of diversity to the game. I think almost anything would cause a problem if it wasn’t structured well, so sure a mastery tree would be total crap if it allowed for OP builds, but if it was well balanced and constantly updated then I could only see it making the game more complex in a good way.

Right now we got:

  1. Multiple fixed class loadouts
  2. Single loadouts with unlockable/buyable weapon/skill combos
  3. Single loadouts with more widely available customization via balanced mastery tree

There has to be something in the form of content here, so just trying to exchange ideas on stuff we could make work. I can see potential problems with everything already, but a lot of that would happen mostly if they were implemented in a really poorly thought out manner just like anything else.


(INF3RN0) #231

Well it’s more about figuring out how to offer diverse content without 1) ruining balance 2) ruining players ability to play a class to their desired style. Do we want classes to function only one way and one way only? Or do we want to have flexibility that won’t end up making OP class loadouts, etc.


(Valdez) #232

Yeah I hear you. What everyone is talking about seems like a risky move, so maybe attempting it in a different game mode might be a better option?


(Hundopercent) #233

The more I think about it the more I don’t like the idea of mastery trees/runes because a L40 will always be better than a L1. Starting a competitive team means your team will have to farm a lot of pubs (not scrims) to get the gold they need for their build. It doesn’t sound appealing at all. =/

I would much rather purchase guns for my class and select the loadout I plan on playing. Medic/Engi will use and purchase SMGs and Shotguns, Lt. will use ARs and Machine Guns, soldiers will have heavy weapons - minigun (like the venom), panzer, grenade launcher, bolt action rifle, heavy auto shotty


(INF3RN0) #234

Well if your simply afraid that it might upset comp or not be ready for it off the start, it could be as simple as limiting comp to a set group of mercs only to begin with if it really has to be that way. Then if other content becomes balanced enough to work in comp, it can be allowed in over time. The main game mode is SW and OBJ though, and the majority of the player base will be wanting to use what they pay for. Again if we can get it all to flow seamlessly from one end to the other the comp community will be that much more successful and long lasting- but firstly the entire system would need to work to begin with.


(INF3RN0) #235

[QUOTE=strychzilla;436452]The more I think about it the more I don’t like the idea of mastery trees/runes because a L40 will always be better than a L1. Starting a competitive team means your team will have to farm a lot of pubs (not scrims) to get the gold they need for their build. It doesn’t sound appealing at all. =/

I would much rather purchase guns for my class and select the loadout I plan on playing. Medic/Engi will use and purchase SMGs and Shotguns, Lt. will use ARs and Machine Guns, soldiers will have heavy weapons - minigun (like the venom), panzer, grenade launcher, bolt action rifle, heavy auto shotty[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with you. Some ways we could get around it though is perhaps 1) allow for players to earn full points very quick 2) comp mode instantly grants full points regardless of level. Even with purchasable weapons a poor low level player wouldn’t be able to buy what they wanted in a similar way.


(nailzor) #236

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;436447]You didn’t exactly respond in a way that explained to me what you saw as the problem and you sort of insinuated that I can get away with a bad idea because I have a higher post count lol.
[/QUOTE]

What on earth are you talking about?! Did you read what I said or not? Let me reiterate it for you: I referred to players that don’t log hours of gameplay per week, and you think that means you? Please… read…

My opinion, if I am allowed to have one lord inf3rn0, is that Mastery Trees belong to RPG/MOBA games, not FPS.


(INF3RN0) #237

[QUOTE=nailzor;436455]What on earth are you talking about?! Did you read what I said or not? Let me reiterate it for you: I referred to players that don’t log hours of gameplay per week, and you think that means you? Please… read…

My opinion, if I am allowed to have one lord inf3rn0, is that Mastery Trees belong to RPG/MOBA games, not FPS.[/QUOTE]

Meh I’m not a lord lol… your entitled to your opinion. I just wanted a more detailed reason than it makes you puke or you doubt it will work, that’s all. So then are you for individual class loadouts or what Strych was saying or something completely different? We do need to come up with something to fit the need.


(Hundopercent) #238

True, but they wouldn’t be innately weaker either. All guns will have strengths and weaknessses.


(INF3RN0) #239

Yea for sure. The thing is that I feel like the biggest problem is that we are mostly afraid that the system will fail, more so than whether or not it actually will fail. If SC2 only had 2 races people might say that a 3rd race would be impossible to balance for example. It’s any changes that are new and seem hard to do well that turn people off and I totally understand it, however you can never progress without new ideas. At the core I really am in favor of high skill requirements for the core game and I really don’t want anything else factoring in to overshadow the FPS portion of the game. Overall I want fast paced low spread head aim tracking to be the main focus of solo play, and then the team aspect adding to that for the meta. If i had a choice I would probably be perfvectly fine with a reproduction of RTCW, ET, etc, but I understand that it won’t and can’t happen for this to be successful which is why I’m realkly just trying to think outside of the box. The biggest thing I hate about f2p games is that a lot of stuff that get’s a price tag on it really needs to be part of the overall free part of the game, so I really would like a way that we can all be hhappy. The only reason I even supported the idea of a mastery tree is because I can see it acting as a good way to allow people to avoid having to buy a bunch of class loadoust just to fit their play style or to try differnt means of playing. All a mastery tree would serve as is to mold a class to a specific style such as support, all-around, aggresive, map specific, etc and not to necessarily be as simple as making a super strong class. It would be completely pointless if one loadout was stronger than everything else, however since we all have different ideas of how classes should function I can see this as satisfying everyone and if done correctly it can be balanced. Even thought that might be hard it’s definitely not impossible. Im a bit drunk at this point and had to tread this over a ferw times though to make sure you can gunderstand but I think we should just really be doing more for the benefit of SD trying to make a free game that is appealing to more than old fans and be more willing to test stuff before saying it wont work off of impulse. I used to be the same exact way, but I get that the games aren’t just made for me personally or for comp. I’d just like to have everyone satisfied and for the game to be realkly high quality. Meh im a lord etc maybe it’s dumb idk just trying to be helpful. Sorry mustang for paragraphs lolll!


(Hundopercent) #240

Their is more money in micro-transactions, i.e. guns, scopes, skins, loadouts etc than large purchases, i.e. 10$ for a merc loadout. I only price them that high because it’s a new model, weapon, everything. I can’t see them selling those mercs cheaper than 10$. If it was any other game I would say it would be more towards 15 - 20. We don’t really have an idea of how the store will function and probably won’t for awhile, which is fine. I do think we need to figure out this class uniqueness/over nerfing/bitter from xxx game **** though asap.

Is SD even open deleting the sniper class and merging it into Soldier and just make them the best at all combat ranges and scenarios (like they should be?)

Is SD open to making every class an even playing ground and let ultimate teamwork determine who is the victor and not this class > this class < this class making skill less of a requirement?

These are important things to handle earlier rather than later. =/