I think the current problem with DB is that there is nothing (yet) to keep ppl playing the game. Even a good game gets repetitive if the gameplay is always the same.
In popular shooters you see progress with your character as long as you play with level/perks/unlocks/stats etc.
Maybe add something like this? But the perks/unlocks should be balanced, that’s not the case with COD for example.
[QUOTE=Breo;411443]I think the current problem with DB is that there is nothing (yet) to keep ppl playing the game. Even a good game gets repetitive if the gameplay is always the same.
In popular shooters you see progress with your character as long as you play with level/perks/unlocks/stats etc.
Maybe add something like this? But the perks/unlocks should be balanced, that’s not the case with COD for example.[/QUOTE]
An SDK to allow the community to create maps and mods will keep the game going for a long time if the gameplay is tight. I personally don’t enjoy the CoD model. I am cool with earning experience based unlocks, as long as those unlocks do not affect gameplay. Offer flair items to players that can dedicate a lot of their free time to the game. But if you’re going to give extra gameplay bonuses to frequent players, you run the risk of alienating the portion of players that can only dedicate a few hours a week or are new to the game. Not only will the frequent players be better due to the amount of time they play the game, but if you offer them better equipment or skills that make them even more powerful as a bonus for their dedication, that’s a recipe to scare off newbs.
Plus, I hate the grind of CoD, because once you finally unlock everything, your only option is to either stop advancing or erase everthing and start over (prestige). Yay!
[QUOTE=BioSnark;411376]That’s the point and appeal of limited edition stuff.
Vanity items that are only obtainable for a limited time are also a lesson in F2P success from TF2 and many MMOs.[/QUOTE]
And doing so before the game is even released doesn’t give people any chance to be a part of it. Give alpha testers a cosmetic item or whatever but don’t exclude people from titles that they never had a chance of getting.
This is a great idea.
As long as you don’t pay for the upper hand, I’m good with everything.
Any price set on the Founders Club?
This is where I think SD needs to be cautious in it’s description of features.
Also if people are going to be fine with single builds in game it’ll be a little hypocritical for them to worry about not having access to all the builds. I mean, they’re all equally good right? 
When people refer to the “Comp community,” many of them are not simply speaking about players who appreciate a challenging skill based game. I have seen it used as more of a derogatory term for those “hardcore” players who simply take the game too seriously, rather than simply players who appreciate competition, since even casual players can fall into hat category.
Comp Community needs to encompass people at all levels otherwise it’s going to be a broken system. Hopefully as DB becomes a healthy and populated game SD (and others) will be able to use in-game tools to run leagues and ladders. I’ve never been a high level player but I could see me joining a fun clan to play the odd organised matches.
Again, maybe it won’t hurt for SD to be clear that comp means people of all levels.
[QUOTE=Breo;411443]I think the current problem with DB is that there is nothing (yet) to keep ppl playing the game. Even a good game gets repetitive if the gameplay is always the same.
In popular shooters you see progress with your character as long as you play with level/perks/unlocks/stats etc.
Maybe add something like this? But the perks/unlocks should be balanced, that’s not the case with COD for example.[/QUOTE]
I think a healthy and fresh community helps a lot more than anything else. It means people can always find games at their level, there is always someone newer, you have a sense of community as you all continually need to help other players. Once the new players stop, things start to stagnate and the game descends into more of a private club with rising skill ceilings and more barriers to entry.
Additionally I think the fact that DB with have other modes and possibly more with mods is going to help it bring in players. IMO it’s better the game have legs and SD has time to tweak formulas on say OBJ than rely solely on OBJ mode and expect people to be patient while things are added.
Finally, on the progression thing. Undeniably popular amongst gamers. It is however a slippery slope and something latched onto by CoD and other games purely to give a finite amount of appeal to their games. This isn’t something SD wants with DB, the game should last for years and if they implement a progression system the next thing people will be crying for is value behind that progression system.
Comp Community needs to encompass people at all levels otherwise it’s going to be a broken system. Hopefully as DB becomes a healthy and populated game SD (and others) will be able to use in-game tools to run leagues and ladders. I’ve never been a high level player but I could see me joining a fun clan to play the odd organised matches.
Most comps do - there are two types, open and invitational.
The problem with competition is, with FPS specifically they usually dont play the game in its vanilla form.
And the list of changes can be so huge, that it can become a barrier for new players.
In COD and Halo they play the big tournaments in vanilla. I think that’s an ambition any FPS should have. The pro league needs to inspire the base rather than isolate themselves from it.The game ought to be the same on all levels so that the casual players can still feel that with hard work they can one day become a professional famous player.
Perhaps SD can include enough mutators on standard modes so that comp configs are accessible to all and easily accessible. I do think however that if the tools are there to run ladders and leagues we’ll see a bigger competitive community and perhaps more variety under which rules they operate.
I feel mutators are a cop out. It’s sending the message that as a developer you don’t truly believe in the game you’re making. If you’re asking a girl out you’re also not including the option of ‘I can also dye my hair black if you prefer that’.
Or it says they understand people may want to tweak their formula. You know because nothing says class more than inviting a girl out to dinner and then deciding on what she’s going to eat and drink.
Seriously, the point was that it would be better to have the ability to make a comp mode in game, than rely on the comp community to accept what SD defines as a comp mode. It’s not like every league and ladder is going to operate under the same rules anyway.
I think the competition players agree, that it should be played in vanilla form.
Meaning that the vanilla form respects skill differential to such a degree that it doesnt require any changes.
Realistically thats not going to happen though.
Perhaps SD can include enough mutators on standard modes so that comp configs are accessible to all and easily accessible. I do think however that if the tools are there to run ladders and leagues we’ll see a bigger competitive community and perhaps more variety under which rules they operate.
Yes thats one approach.
I feel mutators are a cop out. It’s sending the message that as a developer you don’t truly believe in the game you’re making. If you’re asking a girl out you’re also not including the option of ‘I can also dye my hair black if you prefer that’.
Again, wouldnt be an issue if a game in its vanilla form respected skill differential.
BTW just to be clear nothing that has been said here is in relation to DB yet. Its not fair on the game nor on SD to make those comments.
I’m just impressed, since I haven’t heard such awesome words in the game industry for years! That’s exactly the right way and the reason why I love SD! <3
I completely agree with this, I’m sure I was in a heavy discussion before about keeping the casual side as close to the comp side as they can so it’s easy for new players to make the leap if they feel that’s what they want.
Yes, it should be. But whenever the comp players get involved and try to make the game work for everyone, they get told comp players are irrelevant/mean/poopyheads, so we usually get stuff like regenerating shields and lottospread and a game so shallow it’s pointless to try to play comp on it.
So the comp players either:
(1) Mod the game into a shape that does work for everyone (like ETQWpro), and then get slagged for it because they’re awful poopyheads who won’t just accept silly gameplay randomness.
(2) Or they just leave and don’t play the game.
You want a game that works on all levels? Great, so do I, let’s get to it.
You want a game that doesn’t work on all levels, that includes stuff to appease casuals but breaks the game in competition? Fine, go have fun on it.
You want comp players to play an unsatisfying shallow game where the outcome is based on luck and not skill for the sake of inspiring people who refuse to learn to play a game that is based on skill and not luck? No.
I can’t even begin to comprehend a mindset that blames comp players for not playing games they don’t enjoy, or for trying to turn a game they don’t enjoy into one they do.
But that’s not happening here is it? The great hip fire accuracy shows that big competitive sentiments are being taken seriously.
I didn’t say that’s what was happening here; I said it was great to hear the desire to get comp players involved, because it shows that it’s intentionally not happening here. DB really does have a chance at being a game that works along that whole range of players, because SD get it. The post was a positive one.
The ability to make modifications to maps via mapscripts was a huge benefit to the W:ET comp scene, in my opinion, although I may be biased since I spent so much time bugfixing and altering such scripts…
I really hope you can pull this off. I’m rooting for you!
Instead, we’re launching a Founders Club for fans wanting early access, cool swag, and public recognition for their support. On release, and perhaps beforehand, players may be able to buy additional new characters that perform core classes, but with additional weapons and abilities. These will add fun, and be different, but not be more powerful. A suite of free and chargeable additional game services will also be available. We’ll go in to more detail on these later, but they’re awesome.
What do you think?
I think one of the top 5 things I liked most about ET was that the MP-40 was exactly the same as the Thompson. If you lost a 1v1 fight that started on fair grounds, then you’d better practice more because the other guy earned it. If you guys can really maintain balance while selling new stuff I’m all for it. I am looking forward to the upcoming details you mentioned.
With some editing you could post The Dirty Bomb Philosophy & Business Model in the normal forum, more people deserve to hear this…
Hear, hear!
Regarding to the business model and the chargeable additional services, i was thinking, clan skins made by the clans or by SD, made available in-game by a small (as in small pay once) fee, clan insignia patches for clan members, clan insignia tattoos, etc. If a player join a clan he will have access to those skins, insignia patches, tattoos, etc. The Clans will have a grate incentive for buying add space on your banner (see the next paragraph)
In W:ET you had in the server browser a moving banner with how many players played ET, and how many matches have been played, you can implement some kind of moving banner in your server list and charge a small fee (small /day/week/month/etc) for recruiting adds, commercials, etc. (non intrusive)
Also if is not to hard, to allow the players to have their face digitized and made available to their in-game chars, as a pay once fee/per char/per total. Too SF?
I didn’t know where to post this so sorry if i made a mistake 
Pay for things that you really don’t need to have but are nice to have to brag about it (like in the real world)
It sure did but that same ability completely cannibalised the stock game until it became impossible to have a normal W:ET match when you wanted one.