DB = Diced Beef

(potty200) #21

These are not spawn waves. These are spawn timers.

I know this, which is why I mention in. There is little need for feedback on how maps play without proper spawn times. It all seems random and very ramboish to me :\

(pulley) #22

they should really just add a 30 second timer for both defence and offence and see how it will work out…

(BomBaKlaK) #23

[QUOTE=MrFunkyFunk;443639]I agree with a lot of the concerns raised.
I’ll add my opinion that it currently reinforces the impression that most maps feel too claustrophobic and desesperatly lack any additional forward spawns, side routes and side objectives etc

In my mind, for pub gameplay, the current spawn timers and lack of waves, can only be pictured as a funnel (maps) leading into a big spam meat grinder (spawns). It’s awful, frustrating and not motivating to play.[/QUOTE]

Claustrophobic is the word ! Please open up ! yeah it’s urban but we need more space, more open routes etc …
that’s why a lot of player like camden, so maybe that’s the good direction.
Larger maps are really needed ! real forward spawn with a real impact.

larger map with lots of server slots and bigger community, even if it’s more for pubbing, but people love big maps and big battle remember market gaden :wink:

(tokamak) #24

Even in the wider maps the rushed and superficial combat remains an issue. Yeah there’s some adrenaline in the twitch shooting but it doesn’t stay interesting for long, it’s repetitive.

(INF3RN0) #25

Let’s start with some incremental spawn timer changes yea? I’m sure we will find a good number, but it’s definitely more than it is currently. There’s promoting constant action with less down time, and then there’s just plain overwhelming any type of player lol.

(Hundopercent) #26

[QUOTE=tokamak;443588]It’s a meatgrinder because the high mobile accuracy makes running around like an idiot the only valid way to play. You can’t exert control over space in the same way as you can in ETQW because the ironsights are worthless.

More stances need to have their own specialistic strength. This stops the rushing from being the only solution to anything.[/QUOTE]

RtCW and ET were not meat grinder games and both have high mobile accuracy. It’s a combination of spawn times, map design, and objectives.

(Nail) #27

as I never get to play with actual people, I’ll forgo comenting on gameplay, but I HATE THE C4, you don’t set that sh!t off with a kitchen timer, you use electrical firing systems just like since, oh I don’t know, the '60s. It takes to long to blow, I understand the need to defuse, but not the need to wait for opposing team to finish their lunch, then casually stroll over

(Kendle) #28

Yep, in RTCW / ET we had dynamite with a 30s fuse and a 30s spawn. In DB we have C4 with a 30s fuse and a 15s spawn. If today’s gamers really can’t wait more than 15s to spawn (even tho we managed with 40s sometimes in RTCW), then reduce the fuse time to 15s as well.

It’s not so much that the spawn times are off, it’s that they’re off in relation to everything else, the time it takes C4 to blow, the time it takes to activate the controls on Camden etc., they’re all affected by a spawn time that’s too fast in relation to what you’re trying to do, leading to meat grinder / lemming rush gameplay.

(SockDog) #29

Honestly not sure which is worse for appeal in the game. Constant meat grinding or losing because you’re stuck in an extended spawn. Seems the latter removes many opportunities to redefend an objective.

(rand0m) #30

Be the better player. Problem solved. Longer spawn waves creates a better skill ceiling rather then a constant barrage of 1-2 players just walking into a spam. Increase spawn times to a fixed wave that forces spawns once tapped/gibbed that way teams are far more together. The defense has to quick of time to get the 1-2 players back. There’s no setup time involved.

(Kendle) #31

If you consider these rules as appropriate for a balanced objective game :-

  1. The objective should be closer to defender spawn than to attack, so they get there first on initial spawn.
  2. The attacking team have to get past defence to achieve the objective.
  3. Defence should have an opportunity to recover the situation by re-spawning in sufficient time to stop attack carrying out the objective.
  4. Should defence fail to recover the situation the game moves on to the next stage.

In DB at the moment rules 1 to 3 apply, but rule 4 doesn’t, because spawn times are too short in comparison to the length of time the attacking team require to complete the objective (30s fuse on C4 compared to 15s spawn etc.)

Either spawn times need to increase (preferred option), or the time it takes C4 to explode, controls to be activated, EV to be repaired etc. needs to be reduced.

I prefer increased spawn times because it also makes dying costly, discouraging rambo behaviour, making Medics (particularly reviving) more important, the timing and co-ordination of attacks becomes more important, and you get much less of a meat-grinder effect because you die less often.

(Hundopercent) #32

It doesn’t even need to be 40. We should try 25/O 30/D and see how it goes. We also need maps designed to last 20 mins and not forced to be 20 mins.

Make it so if played well between balanced teams it will be completed at roughly 20 mins. Stop forcing the maps to last 18 - 20 by design because last night we didn’t complete any maps. It was a full hold on both sides and it’s terrible (it’s exactly like Brink.) I mean no disrespect but your map designers need to attend like a level designer convention or something and work out the issue they have with open objectives, impenetrable chokes, defense spawning on objectives, and wasted space (1st stage of Waterloo all the action is right by the objective and defense spawns right next to and on top of the objective.)

(Seanza) #33

20 second for attack, 30 for defence.

100%

(acutepuppy) #34

I thought Brink was bad because it was unfinished… I’m starting to see some of the really serious flaws being polished up…

And they have a saying about that.

(potty200) #35

20 second for attack, 30 for defence.

100%

This WITH a timer on the HUD so you know when you spawn.

EDIT: And if you don’t tap out in time you MISS your spawn!

(Seanza) #36

[QUOTE=potty200;444662]This WITH a timer on the HUD so you know when you spawn.

EDIT: And if you don’t tap out in time you MISS your spawn![/QUOTE]

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(Protekt1) #37

I think the issue of spawns is more than just how long the spawn timer is for each wave. The distance to the objective is a much harder variable to account for since it will be changing from objective to objective. I don’t think we can ever reasonably expect each objective to be perfectly timed and I think it could work for every time variable as long as the distance/objective placement is accounted for. Perhaps instead of increasing the spawn rate, the spawns could be pushed back slightly.

One thing I noticed is that people seem to be ping ponging between 15s and 30s spawn rate. That is a huge change and I wonder why people aren’t suggesting a smaller change like 20s. Doubling the spawn downtime seems like a huge leap.

(.Chris.) #38

[QUOTE=Seanza;444625]20 second for attack, 30 for defence.

100%[/QUOTE]

Not exactly, it all depends on the objective location in relation to spawn locations for each team, Kendle explained it rather well before. You have to adjust the spawn times on a case by case basis or rather, an objective by objective basis, all ET and ET:QW maps (didn’t play RTCW) adjust their spawn times per objective when the layout called for it, though which team it favoured differed.

Even with ‘proper’ spawn times and spawn waves you could end up with the meat grinder situation due to the layout. The layouts on the maps when I last played weren’t exactly helping, don’t know how things are now but seems nothing drastic has changed, hopefully they’ll get there in end.

(potty200) #39

Not exactly, it all depends on the objective location in relation to spawn locations for each team, Kendle explained it rather well before. You have to adjust the spawn times on a case by case basis or rather, an objective by objective basis, all ET and ET:QW maps (didn’t play RTCW) adjust their spawn times per objective when the layout called for it, though which team it favoured differed.

ET used 20 for attack and 30 for def on every map except Frostbite due to it being re-made from RTCW with their 25 second spawn time and 30 second.

As they explained in the echo video they can easily move spawns to help the “meat grind” feeling. So whack a 20/30 spawn time on and see how the maps play out. Might get more than 1 in like 10 maps being completed this way.

(.Chris.) #40

Was that for just competition? I’m sure I remember they changed when looking at stock map scripts, I know they did in ET:QW I might be wrong for ET then.

Edit, checked and you’re right, they don’t change in ET. Seems odd looking back, imo they should change depending on the layout for the current stage/objective of the map.