Custom content on ranked servers

[tokamak]

The game modes, and other official content were tags automatically added and from there you could add custom tags so you can easily cater to the people looking for your server.

[Mycologist]

Hello, I run a small game community (about 500 members). Our main game currently is TF2 and I have been watching Brink since it was first announced. I’ve come to the forums a few times, but I registered so I could post a reply to this thread.

In Team Fortress 2 the client can decide to allow/not allow custom content to be downloaded to their machines, with the exception of custom maps. Maps in TF2 do not contain anything other than the map itself, custom textures, custom models contained within the map and possibly some particle effects.

The server browser can be filtered to show/hide tags that effect game-play. In TF2 these would be servers with higher than normal player slots, faster respawn times etc. There’s also a client side blacklist option that allows players to “blacklist” servers they dislike so they never show up in the list again. Valve has also put a server rating system in place. It rates servers by how long players stay on them. Basically, new servers start with a score of 0 points. Each time a player connects to a server, it loses 15 points. For each minute the player stays on the server, it earns 1 point (up to a max of 45 points per player). This then effects a player’s server list to allow the best servers to show up first; whether they have mods/custom maps or not.

Built-in personal stats for TF2 are considered “fun” and can be cleared at any time if you want to start fresh. Achievements can be achieved on any server; there’s no such thing as a “ranked” TF2 server. Our server tracks player stats using a 3rd party plugin called HLstatsX, it’s what our members enjoy the most, because it only compares them to other members in our community.

I really hope Brink is an option for us to take on. We run a full box dedicated server in Seattle and we like to run games as “stock” as possible without game altering mods etc.

Cheers.

[Ashog]

Well, like I said in the ETQW board thread, I’m getting harder pressed to seeing a reason to have ranked servers. Am I crazy? What am I missing? :eek:

Perhaps, in-game ads?

[mortis]

Pluses for ranked servers:

Mandatory acceptance of patches/updates
Reliable, common game experience
Stats are based on a level playing field
Prevents/reduces XP hacks / gratuitous unlocks

Downside for Ranked Servers:

Custom content/maps are typically unwelcome
Lack of server customization options
Adware/Spamware can be forced on
Often limited to certain expensive ISPs
Draws players away from custom servers due to lack of stats/unlock progress
Tend to be “one size fits all” configurations

[H0RSE]

Track stats on all servers but only allow unchanged servers to call themselves ‘pure’ and show up in the default list. Custom content is important but what’s even more important is to safeguard the official game and make sure that people will always be able to play what they’ve bought.

I agree with this. I started playing W:ET again recently, and every game I joined had some kind of custom content in it. I don’t even think I found a ‘pure’ server, and that is all I wanted. Custom content can be good, but some of us just just want the original unaltered game they love.

[RR2DO2]

All a pure server does is ensure all clients and the server use the same data set. This does in no way (and never has) mean that the server can’t be modded. The pure mechanism is a reaction to the pre-quake3 days where people were using random spiked player models etc to operate as wallhacks. If a pure server doesn’t have this hack installed, then none of the clients can load it either. In other words, the game experience is identical for all clients.

This has in no way got anything to do with the server being a standard ‘vanilla’ setup.

[tokamak]

We know, we’re using a different meaning to the word.

[murka]

Pure - Client and Server match
Vanilla - Server(and client if server is pure) both run the unaltered game that came in the box.

Using these terms wrong will only cause confusion in your posts so better make them universally comprehensible.

[darthmob]

[QUOTE=H0RSE;208031]I agree with this. I started playing W:ET again recently, and every game I joined had some kind of custom content in it. I don’t even think I found a ‘pure’ server, and that is all I wanted. Custom content can be good, but some of us just just want the original unaltered game they love.[/QUOTE]In my opinion the problem is not that there is custom content but that you can’t select what to download and what not. Either you get the maps from a different source or you have to stick with all the sound- and skinpacks.

[SSF-Sage]

Yeah a filter to know if there is any skin/sound mods would be great. But personally I don’t want it to include custom maps. So perhaps even 2 filters. 1 for full vanilla, 1 for custom maps, who knows.

Altho even this might make the masses treat the custom content differently. Aka Vanilla=qualityplay custom=buggybadplay. So even this might cause an effect similar to ranked servers, but a lot weaker one.

[Apples]

The “pure” word is excessively used over there, you can have stats without ranked server and thats the main point maybe add filter for ppl that dont want to try any new content the community will bring out but plz do not make the same mistakes as in qw.

We need a custom friendly and comp friendly game, this will keep a solid community going, then the game will live longer and longer mean more sales in my view.

peace

[Chris2]

Hard to distinguish between custom map and skins/textures if the author puts them in same pk4, happened in ET with some maps.

[darthmob]

[QUOTE=chr1s;208081]Hard to distinguish between custom map and skins/textures if the author puts them in same pk4, happened in ET with some maps.[/QUOTE]But then that’s either a bad habit from the author or a flaw in the system (custom textures in a map should not be loaded if the map isn’t running). Is it too much to expect some progress on the custom content system after it was in use for more than 6 years? I can understand that it’s not a priority issue but in both ET and ETQW the system isn’t perfect and I would like to see it improved.

[tokamak]

[QUOTE=murka10;208034]Pure - Client and Server match
Vanilla - Server(and client if server is pure) both run the unaltered game that came in the box.

Using these terms wrong will only cause confusion in your posts so better make them universally comprehensible.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I know I wasn’t aware of what terms were used around here.

[RR2DO2]

But then that’s either a bad habit from the author or a flaw in the system (custom textures in a map should not be loaded if the map isn’t running).

It’s not a custom content system as such, it’s a virtual file system - and the properties of this can be used to support custom content if certain guidelines are followed (you ‘replace’ files based on an overlay/hierarchy). It was expanded on during Doom 3 / ETQW dev with the additional addon meta data for pk4 packages to provide more information about what is in a pak.

In the end though, it is up to the author of the custom content to follow certain guidelines. The system itself is fairly braindead - because of various reasons, including performance. If you see such a bad behaving package though, just contact the author and get them to fix it?

[darthmob]

Thanks for the explanation, RR2DO2! Sounds reasonable not to change anything with the basic filesystem. But surely there would be a way to make use of the additional meta data provided with packages? Like setting up tags for different categories (maps / skins / sounds / campaigns / etc.) and having the client filter which files to get from the server.

[jRAD]

Thanks for the explanation, RR2DO2! Sounds reasonable not to change anything with the basic filesystem. But surely there would be a way to make use of the additional meta data provided with packages? Like setting up tags for different categories (maps / skins / sounds / campaigns / etc.) and having the client filter which files to get from the server.

It’s still up to the person making the package to set it all up correctly - if they don’t do that (and you can’t ever trust anyone to do so), then the filters are worthless.

[darthmob]

You could negate the filter and make a whitelist. Only allow download of files that are tagged as maps or campaigns. I would expect a mapper to know more about how to pack files (especially as most servers will only play quality maps) than a random server owner who just wants some funny sounds and skins. Sure, some people might exploit that and tag files deliberately wrong but that would hopefully be the exception (as mappers placing custom skins in their maps are an exception). Btw, you guys are the paid programmers. It should be your job to find a way to make it work.

L4D has got three options for custom content: You can allow all downloads, no sounds or no downloads at all. How does it check the files?

[RR2DO2]

A level designer should know exactly which files his map drags in. After all, he is the one who has to put them in the pk4 the is creating. A map isn’t just the map file, it includes the whole dependency tree of materials, textures, sound shaders, sounds, etc etc. No need to tag, just make sure the direct dependencies are included.

This is not a programmer’s task, this is the asset creator’s task. After all, his or her responsibility is it to create and manage assets.

L4D probably has special sound paks. In the same way that in ETQW you have to tag a pk4 containing a level with meta data containing the information required to load this map.

[Scrupus]

[QUOTE=RR2DO2;208105]It’s not a custom content system as such, it’s a virtual file system - and the properties of this can be used to support custom content if certain guidelines are followed (you ‘replace’ files based on an overlay/hierarchy). It was expanded on during Doom 3 / ETQW dev with the additional addon meta data for pk4 packages to provide more information about what is in a pak.

In the end though, it is up to the author of the custom content to follow certain guidelines. The system itself is fairly braindead - because of various reasons, including performance. If you see such a bad behaving package though, just contact the author and get them to fix it?[/QUOTE]

I like the addon.conf system in etqw, but there is a couple of issues I would like to see handled better/different in Brink.

First of all, the problem with additional paks:

Additional Pak Files

These are any paks file not covered by the previous cases. These will be included in the pure system if and only if, the server loads any files which are not covered by pure exclusions during engine startup (or during first map load, but that is riskier, so is not recommend).The easiest way to get this to happen is to include a declaration file which is not on the pure exclusion list. This file can be empty."

What are those additional paks really meant for? We had a couple of accidents with those in etqw, where players started to complain about reloads whenever they connected to a vanilla/ranked server after downloading additional paks on a custom server (typically hotfixes for maps). It only hit a few players in QW and we got rid of them rather quickly (and learned to always add the addon.conf…), but I fear what will happen if it should hit players on a larger scale (assuming Brink will be a big hit

Sure it’s the servers/mappers fault in the first place, but those paks can be hard to track down unless you know what servers a client has been on, or which file to look for.

Would be better if additional paks where NEVER loaded, unless referenced from a real addon pak or server config.

Then the problem with loading addon paks. The only way I found to load them is to either spawn a map or a campaign. Which cover most cases, but there should be some other way to force a specific addon pak to load (even if it’s not a map or campaign), either from config or commandline. Or maybe just a simple list of addon paks to load on startup.

The addon system is a good step forward, but with the qw engine I feel it’s almost harder to load a proper addon pak, than a poorly made additional pak - it should be the other way around, ref. Murphys law

Maybe the additional paks could be turned into some kind of “optional” paks instead - the server can offer them but the client can decide if it want to use them or not. Maybe place typical server theme stuff in a special folder and put that on the pure exclusion list or something.

Not sure if that would be possible but just some thoughts