Competitive mode: solo queue vs premade


(LiNkzr) #21

Just suggestions towards future.

Team que and solo/duo quo maybe separately (Now they should be in same, but maybe balance it so that people who are solo are higher ranked individually

Have a system where you pick: Medic, Recon, Heavy, Assault, Ammo or what ever you come up with and try to do teams based on that, I played one soloque game and needless to say it was less than with the team composition. Barely got one medic going on.

CS:GO places solo vs stacked, dota used to do it (and still does it to a degree with people who are soloqueing and some are party queing with 2 or 3) and even with larger player base. I think it’s always nice “reality check” to face against a better team to see what’s really going on, but the disparities at the moment are just too high because system being new and the player base so small, with time this will get better.

And again I have the same feeling many teams shouldnt even play ranked matchmaking now coz “it will ruin the fun for new people”


(Ecano) #22

I would for separated queues, number of players will increase, I know people that is not playing waiting for a solo option.


(spookify) #23

Great thread!

How are peoples ranks coming?
I do have to say that solo que was a little frustrating. If I remember correctly I played 15 total matches yesterday.
12 solo que
3 pre-made
I won all my pre-mades but won half of my solo’s… I got owned a lot by some of those pre-mades above. I also got queued in mostly euro servers and again lots of teleporting, warping and WTF moments!
I am Gold 4?!? Not really sure what that means… I cant see other people ranks nor can i see my stats on how or why I am Gold 4… I know SD probably donest want to spill the beans on how ranks are calculated but shouldnt there be something?

As for Anti’s solo que vs teams I think your current thought process is correct. Eventually it will work better but with such a small group its hard. Plus the feeling seems a little more in larged becuase of how good some of the pre-mades are.


(Anti) #24

Hey,

I’ve just been made aware of one pretty big bug related to ranked, the rank icons are backwards within each league :frowning:

We’ll be fixing it soon but just to make it clear Gold 5 is the lowest Gold division, Gold 1 is the highest. Gold 1 should have the biggest Gold badge, Gold 5 should have the smallest badge. So right now, when you go from Gold 2 to Gold 1 after a win, and your badge shrinks, you actually got promoted! :smiley:

We’ll make sure this gets fixed ASAP, sorry for any confusion this might be causing.


(spookify) #25

[QUOTE=Anti;529644]Hey,

I’ve just been made aware of one pretty big bug related to ranked, the rank icons are backwards within each league :frowning:

We’ll be fixing it soon but just to make it clear Gold 5 is the lowest Gold division, Gold 1 is the highest. Gold 1 should have the biggest Gold badge, Gold 5 should have the smallest badge. So right now, when you go from Gold 2 to Gold 1 after a win, and your badge shrinks, you actually got promoted! :smiley:

We’ll make sure this gets fixed ASAP, sorry for any confusion this might be causing.[/QUOTE]

Awww haha! I thought i was doing so well :wink:

While I got you here, what about FF, collision and a force spawn clock in these ranked games?

Edit: Maybe when a person levels up are is slowly increasing or decreasing their rank you can put up green or dow red arrows next to the persons name or rank? That woulx be pretty cool!


(Zenity) #26

[QUOTE=fubar;529597]
On a side note: twidi, mikza, adeto and I all intentionally solo queued a lot of games today, to avoid getting stacked teams. Anti can confirm that as he’s been put into the same lobby with us on more than one occasion, but honestly… it really doesn’t differ that much.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, that was the only one of three games I played which wasn’t completely terrible (incidentally those were my first real 5on5s in this game, a bit of a harsh introduction :P). It doesn’t stop unfair teams (and I think the first stomp I was against was solos, just super bad luck), but it still increases the chance a lot that at least both of the teams get to leave their spawn occasionally.

I hope you’ll keep doing that for now and if most of the top teams (and PUG players) would agree not to stack matchmaking at least until next week’s open beta, it could help a lot already. That should also make it easier to rank up for you, since ELO distribution is going to be more balanced.

[quote=Anti;529613]
It would be interesting to get community feedback on that last point. Would you folks, both those who solo and those playing in parties, prefer to see ranked locked to teams of three or less in the short term, with us adding bigger team matching later? Or would you prefer to keep it as is for now, potentially ensuring more matches are available faster?[/quote]

I would simply prefer teams not to be matched with solos for now. Maybe two stacks, but not 3+. I understand that this would make it harder to find matches in the short term, but solos vs stack isn’t a real match to begin with. It’s a waste of time for everyone involved, and like others have said, it actively deters many from queueing up in the first place. So if anything your current leniency makes it harder to find a “real” game.

In the future, when the system is far more calibrated, you can try allowing solos vs stack again. Maybe at first only allow this with high level solo players, since those will generally know how to play as a team. Also stacks should probably always get a virtual ELO boost, so they are matched up against stronger individuals and have to attain better results to increase their ranking (and vice versa for the solo players). Echo will probably be able to tell you how to calibrate this once we get a lot more matches going, i.e. how much higher the average win expectation is for a stack of five against five solos of equal rank.


(LiNkzr) #27

[QUOTE=Anti;529644]Hey,

I’ve just been made aware of one pretty big bug related to ranked, the rank icons are backwards within each league :frowning:

We’ll be fixing it soon but just to make it clear Gold 5 is the lowest Gold division, Gold 1 is the highest. Gold 1 should have the biggest Gold badge, Gold 5 should have the smallest badge. So right now, when you go from Gold 2 to Gold 1 after a win, and your badge shrinks, you actually got promoted! :smiley:

We’ll make sure this gets fixed ASAP, sorry for any confusion this might be causing.[/QUOTE]

Amazing, I knew that Gold 1 was highest as soon as I got it, muahaha

also when we see how many ppl using the matchmaking and how many in game etc :frowning:


(Glottis-3D) #28

i would like to see not only rank but the exact ELO number, and how it changes with every match. like here:

http://www.qlranks.com/tdm/player/noctis


(OenX) #29

[QUOTE=Anti;529644]Hey,

I’ve just been made aware of one pretty big bug related to ranked, the rank icons are backwards within each league :frowning:

We’ll be fixing it soon but just to make it clear Gold 5 is the lowest Gold division, Gold 1 is the highest. Gold 1 should have the biggest Gold badge, Gold 5 should have the smallest badge. So right now, when you go from Gold 2 to Gold 1 after a win, and your badge shrinks, you actually got promoted! :smiley:

We’ll make sure this gets fixed ASAP, sorry for any confusion this might be causing.[/QUOTE]

So that explains how I got “promoted” from Gold 5 to Gold 4. Still, I’m slightly confused. I’ve been told by several staff members that MM rank entirely depends on wins/losses. Yet, I played all 10 of my placement matches (we won every single one) with another player and we got entirely different ranks. In addition to this, players who lost some of their placement matches instead of going 10-0 actually got better ranks (Gold 1-3).

I think my MM record is close to or at 20-0 now and I’ve just been “promoted” to Gold 4. To me, that makes no sense. Would you mind shedding light on this?


(Szakalot) #30

It does indeed sound like if people were only allowed to solo-queue, the matchmaking would work a lot smoother. Then again, people being able to play with their friends is a big thing in MP FPS.


(LiNkzr) #31

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/536272482587323115/720C139D1CBC917A7CA8D41AA9268712F1EBF86E/ I didn’t see any promotion screen like this when I got to Cobalt


(Humbugsen) #32


best match.

please add surrender vote =)


(Anti) #33

[QUOTE=OenX;529651]

So that explains how I got “promoted” from Gold 5 to Gold 4. Still, I’m slightly confused. I’ve been told by several staff members that MM rank entirely depends on wins/losses. Yet, I played all 10 of my placement matches (we won every single one) with another player and we got entirely different ranks. In addition to this, players who lost some of their placement matches instead of going 10-0 actually got better ranks (Gold 1-3).

I think my MM record is close to or at 20-0 now and I’ve just been “promoted” to Gold 4. To me, that makes no sense. Would you mind shedding light on this?[/QUOTE]

Number of wins doesn’t matter, it’s the quality of the opponents that counts and right now with the small number of players that quality gap can still be quite high. 20 wins, against teams that are worse than you, will not grant you a very quick growth in rating. 10 wins against stronger teams will see you get promoted a lot. The rate at which your rating changes is directly related to the quality of the enemy compared to you.

There is another factor in play right now which is also affecting ratings, which is that we’ve only just started to see lots of ranked players, so the whole population is still being calibrated. If we were to remove the placement period most players (those who didn’t do the matchmaking test earlier this year) would start with our average rating (Silver 1) and as they play games they would progress up or down away from that point, until they hit the right tier. Whilst the community is small and the number of matches low that means moving away from Silver 1 is somewhat slow as most people have similar ranks. As more matches are played and the system calibrates better we’ll see a bigger spread in ratings.

Right now the lowest ranked player is around Silver 5, the highest around Cobalt 3. Two weeks from now, as the move towards a normal distribution of players occurs we’ll be seeing our Elite and Bronze 5 ranks occuring.


(Humbugsen) #34

Also sometimes when i accept the match, it says something like no match information received and i get the 2 minute penalty athough i accepted


(OenX) #35

[QUOTE=Anti;529661]Number of wins doesn’t matter, it’s the quality of the opponents that counts and right now with the small number of players that quality gap can still be quite high. 20 wins, against teams that are worse than you, will not grant you a very quick growth in rating. 10 wins against stronger teams will see you get promoted a lot. The rate at which your rating changes is directly related to the quality of the enemy compared to you.

There is another factor in play right now which is also affecting ratings, which is that we’ve only just started to see lots of ranked players, so the whole population is still being calibrated. If we were to remove the placement period most players (those who didn’t do the matchmaking test earlier this year) would start with our average rating (Silver 1) and as they play games they would progress up or down away from that point, until they hit the right tier. Whilst the community is small and the number of matches low that means moving away from Silver 1 is somewhat slow as most people have similar ranks. As more matches are played and the system calibrates better we’ll see a bigger spread in ratings.

Right now the lowest ranked player is around Silver 5, the highest around Cobalt 3. Two weeks from now, as the move towards a normal distribution of players occurs we’ll be seeing our Elite and Bronze 5 ranks occuring.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I understand it’s basically going to be bell curve distribution. Here’s the scenario, though. Yesterday, myself and Linkz both played 10 games total, winning all of them. Neither of us played in the earlier MM stages and had no effective MMR. During our 10 games, we played pretty much the same people and I think all of them were unranked at the time.

Linkz ended up with Gold 1 and I ended up with Gold 5. I’m not complaining, I’m just curious as to whether there’s a rating system aspect I’m missing.


(LiNkzr) #36

[QUOTE=OenX;529663]
Linkz ended up with Gold 1 and I ended up with Gold 5. I’m not complaining, I’m just curious as to whether there’s a rating system aspect I’m missing.[/QUOTE]

He’s asking if there’s something more, like score / KD that affects along side of win / loss.


(Anti) #37

Nope, there isn’t. Stats like that are prone to occasional exceptions and those exceptions can put the rankings out of whack for a while. The only thing I can think is at one point one of you has played a couple of matches or ranked/matchmaking that the other wasn’t in. If that’s not the case then there might be a calculation bug somewhere.

If you PM me both your current Steam display names I can look up more info and see if I can figure it out.

EDIT: Found you both, there might be a bug but the data suggests you’ve played a significantly different number of matchmaking matches over DB’s history. Are you sure you guys didn’t play a lot in the matchmaking stress test weekends?

Either way right now your current ratings match your current league ratings.


(Glottis-3D) #38

was already answered here in thread.- no, only wins and losses.


(LiNkzr) #39

[QUOTE=Anti;529668]Nope, there isn’t. Stats like that are prone to occasional exceptions and those exceptions can put the rankings out of whack for a while. The only thing I can think is at one point one of you has played a couple of matches or ranked/matchmaking that the other wasn’t in. If that’s not the case then there might be a calculation bug somewhere.

If you PM me both your current Steam display names I can look up more info and see if I can figure it out.[/QUOTE]

Oh okay, so then I just played against people who had some ranked background from earlier beta or won games, we didn’t play all our games together, so that has to be it.

All fine for me now :slight_smile:


(HollowExistence) #40

I don’t care much for teams. I just hop in and play a couple of games. Solo would be much appreciated