Closed Beta update v31970: Wall-Jumping, Lobby Tweaks, Mercs, Maps, and more

(Hundopercent) #81

[QUOTE=BAMFana;492660]I agree with you that the walljump mechanic needs more work, as does the rest of the movement system, but I think they’ve stated pretty clearly that this was just a first try implementation. You’re wrong in saying that it doesn’t currently serve any gameplay purpose though. You can actually reach several “higher areas” using it currently, including a very useful flanking route on whitechapel that is only accessible through walljumping. It’s also somewhat useful for evading in certain circumstances (while reloading, when you can’t take cover behind a wall, for example) and INF3RNO showed in the separate walljumping thread that it is possible to use it to move slightly faster than just sprinting.

As an apropos, it could be cool to see some gameplay stats from the closed beta, like the ones you posted during the alpha, Anti. I think I still have control of the “biggest k/d whore award”, but chump has been beasting lately so who knows.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t use accidental one offs as a solid defense to my argument. You are aware of what I am suggesting and are trying to poke holes for the sake of poking. If you can’t wrap your head around the bigger picture don’t step in my arena. My posts, though some facetious, are mostly targeted to Anti and friends so they can see my perspective and suggestions and take from it what they can. If you want to have a discussion that’s fine but don’t waste everyone’s time with that minor league baby bull**** you just posted.

(BAMFana) #82

Getting their attention through hyperbole and ridiculous exaggerations. Bold move.

(INF3RN0) #83

Wall jumping could use a lot more improvements, but I’ve seen people making it moderately useful so far. It can be used to kick boost forward and I find it especially useful in tight spaces/rounding corners. There’s some okay trick jumps it helps with and I mostly find myself using it to get into and out of combat, but overall maps would need some adaptation to make it more interesting. I’d like to be able to chain kick boosts better and it doesn’t always seem to be as responsive as it should be, but with some further work I think it will work out well. Also hoping we will be able to combo certain movements later on for more interesting results.

(Smooth) #84

We’ve stated before that the levels will go through an ‘allow useful movements pass’ once the newer movement mechanics are closer to their final behaviour.

The game is still work in progress :slight_smile:

(Hundopercent) #85

[QUOTE=Smooth;492673]We’ve stated before that the levels will go through an ‘allow useful movements pass’ once the newer movement mechanics are closer to their final behaviour.

The game is still work in progress :)[/QUOTE]

That’s good to hear. It seems like the approach you guys are taking (create maps/balance maps before any finalized spawn/movement system is completed) is a big waste of time. I’m not a developer so if that’s how it’s done, cool. It just seems like it could be a lot more efficient.

(malarky) #86

Making something fun is not generally an efficient process. We iterate a lot. We hypothesise, build, test, review, and then go again. Most games are made this way. The difference here is you’re watching the sausage being made, so you’re seeing each iteration and reaction. The movement changes are a direct reaction to the feedback you guys have provided. It was a pretty big decision for us to commit to doing this given the work that it’s created, but it’s going to be worth it.

(ras) #87

Sad I’m out of town for another week and can’t test these changes against these cc guys who I’ve heard might as well have their monitors off

(shaftz0r) #88

i felt bad for them tonight. played execution with a full server of them for about 30 mins. they were getting pretty mad by the end of it when im 24-2 and none of them have positive ratios. i did give a lot of good advice and they seemed pretty open to it for the most part

(attack) #89

no wonder with this heavy recoils.as beginner impossible to handle

(RasteRayzeR) #90

I’m sure of it ! It’s a must imo for a comp FPS to have multiple levels of mastery, including movement. The game immediately felt more dynamic and free to me when the wall jumps have been added

(Glottis-3D) #91

yes, it is worth it. no doubt here!

(BAMFana) #92

This has nothing to do with it. Modern gamers are used to much heavier recoil and spread from Counter-Strike and Call of Duty, the most popular FPS franchises. What they’re not used to is moving while shooting and tracking players who use rapidly alternating strafe movements in combat.

(DarkangelUK) #93

For the lobby thing, it’d be nice to see on the server list what the next map is going to be rather than just saying ‘Lobby’ as the map

(BomBaKlaK) #94

Yep this is a good idea

(Ashog) #95

I would like to see the remaining map duration/TL in the ingame server browser. For the waiting on full server cases.

(attack) #96

ye but the problem is not one or the other , its more that the recoil doesnt fit with the fast movement.cs is a much slower game and the ttk is in cod much lower.i have always the feeling that the weapons feel like in bf3 . its simply too much heavy different recoils.(which makes traking also for me tracking with some weapons nearly impossible).there is a reson that in tf is so less recoil its because in a fast game heavy recoil is simply too much.

if this game ever hit the 50+ number of mercs , you have to be able to handle 100+ weapons.nobody can do this.

i mean how you wanna build musclememory for this many weapons?

if you want argue with games like dota or lol, pls note that the basic cursor movement never change.
so its more easy to learn and also more easiy to master.

(Protekt1) #97

There are many more fpses being played than these two you mentioned. It is quite a big generalization you’ve made.

(BAMFana) #98

It is a generalization, but it is a valid one given how large the games in question are. I could add that the other most popular games utilize the same mechanics, but I don’t really see the point in spending more time arguing for a conclusion that should be obvious.

I also don’t think what attack says is supported by the facts. Extraction has very little, almost insignificant, recoil, and the spread is not particularly large either. One can argue that spread and/or recoil should be slightly smaller, or that the hitboxes should be slightly larger, but all in all I think Extraction has reached a reasonable compromise. That’s not to say that it can’t be improved through tweaks, but I don’t think there’s any reason for large systemic changes. The reason why the recoil/spread/hitboxes are what they are have already been explained by the devs in multiple threads, and I think their reasoning is solid. I would, however, like to see more predictable spread patterns rather than the fully randomized distribution we currently have, but that’s a different argument.

(attack) #99

[QUOTE=BAMFana;492771]It is a generalization, but it is a valid one given how large the games in question are. I could add that the other most popular games utilize the same mechanics, but I don’t really see the point in spending more time arguing for a conclusion that should be obvious.

I also don’t think what attack says is supported by the facts. Extraction has very little, almost insignificant, recoil, and the spread is not particularly large either. One can argue that spread and/or recoil should be slightly smaller, or that the hitboxes should be slightly larger, but all in all I think Extraction has reached a reasonable compromise. That’s not to say that it can’t be improved through tweaks, but I don’t think there’s any reason for large systemic changes. The reason why the recoil/spread/hitboxes are what they are have already been explained by the devs in multiple threads, and I think their reasoning is solid. I would, however, like to see more predictable spread patterns rather than the fully randomized distribution we currently have, but that’s a different argument.[/QUOTE]
an fact is that nearly all fast paced games have low or none recoil(ut, quake, et ,tribes ascend, team fortress 2…) , if i jump in xtand try a new merc, i cant hit anythink !even with the mercs i can keep tracking because of low recoil weapons ,the spread owns me.
a video example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNiYvqZIBBc

itwouldnt cost much to even try to reduce it all for one patch and take a look how it works,

(BAMFana) #100

And yet somehow, mysteriously, some players are able to consistently track and hit targets regardless of your personal difficulties with hitting things, and you consistently see them on top of the scoreboard every round. I very much doubt that players like chump, Draelor, INF3RNO, potty and Ryder have less recoil and spread than you, so the reality is that your aim and movement skills simply aren’t good enough comparatively.

The fact is that the differences in recoil/spread/hitboxes in Extraction compared to for example W:ET do not significantly reduce the overall skill requirements, they simply distribute the skill requirements across several different mechanics. Instead of a firefight being solely decided by movement and tracking skill (gross simplification for the sake of argument) you now also have to know how to adjust your movement patterns and shooting technique to account for the recoil and spread growth of the particular weapon you’re using. It’s perfectly fair to argue that you personally prefer less spread and recoil, but it is not at all valid to claim that it is somehow qualitatively better than the alternative, or that “the spread owns me”.