Changes to the Magnums - Suggestions for Better Balance


(ProfPlump) #21

[quote=“Dawnrazor;140962”][quote=“SzGamer227;140960”]This entire thing boils down to whether or not you think magnums should be kept the way they are or not. I do. I like the variety that revolvers offer in terms of usage. I like having a gun at my side that is different than my primary, something that is useful outside of being a last resort when I’m out of ammo, and magnums fill that role well.

Regardless, given that the odds of any drastic change being made to the S&W and Simeon are next to none, I suggest you either stop using them for your own sake or just get used to using revolvers as a close-range spray to down wounded enemies.[/quote]

I think his point is pretty valid, a buff to these sidearms would make them actually worth picking over machine pistols depending on your playstyle, right now you’re hurting yourself a lot if you don’t use an MP secondary on the mercs that get to choose between them.[/quote]

Exactly, and I’m not asking for the revolvers to be exactly the same as the other sidearms, I just want them to be a bit more viable. I still want them to be significantly special, requiring different playstyles, skillset and strategies - I just don’t want them to require all of those things and STILL not be very rewarding or effective.


(SzGamer227) #22

@ProfPlump - Sorry if I sound like a dick. I’m just trying to say that I don’t see anything wrong with the way revolvers are atm. I already think they are more useful than other secondaries, so don’t see the need to buff them. No ill will. ~SzGamer227


(Haki) #23

I love going pistol only as Fragger with the S&W.
it feels weird at first, because you really have to land every shot,
but it’s fantastic practice for your aim and keeping a cool head while getting shot at.

I wouldn’t mind if they got tweaked slightly,mainly the visual recoil you mentioned,
but buffing them would be more than unnecessary imo.


(Amerika) #24

[quote=“ProfPlump;140930”][quote=“Amerika;140912”]I have zero issues with the accuracy from hipfire of the revolvers because of how I pace my shots. Am I getting, “max dps”? Nope. Am I still finishing people off faster with a bigger chunk of life lost per shot I made sure would hit? Yup. Finishing a player with almost no HP in a big chunk with an aimed and accurate shot is better than spamming a button and chunking them down IMO.

People love the M9 because you can shoot it really fast and not worry about how you’re pacing your shots and it’s mag efficiency is pretty good. But if somebody is sitting at 25% HP I want a S&W so i can fire 1-2 shots and focus on my next target. I think giving them even more damage than they are capable of now would make them ridiculously good. And I already find them extremely good as it is.[/quote]

If the Magnums truly were extremely good and were better than sidearms with higher firerate, slightly lower DPS and high magazines, then NOBODY would pick the MO11 Vassili loadout over the MO93 (since MO93 has better augments but has a magnum instead of an MP400). (And I’m talking about the pub players and comp players here - everyone uses the M011 simply because it has the better sidearm instead of the S&W).

I really think your opinion is highly unpopular. Doesn’t 100% mean you’re wrong, but I’m definitely not sold.[/quote]

I am highly confused by your response. We are talking about pistols here I thought and not pistols vs. machine pistols. If I knew we were including the MP400 or even the Tolen/Emp9 then I would have said that, by comparison, the magnums are a bad option. Everyone takes MO11 because it has the MP400 and good augments.

So are we talking about revolvers here compared to other pistols or are we including machine pistols that really shouldn’t be in the same category?

Also, the revolvers are good at taking down large chunks of HP in a finishing situation when fired correctly. Many times when I see people fire them they are pulling the trigger as fast as possible and never hit anything. So depending on your perspective, which is based entirely on how you fire, dictates how “good” many people think they are. It’s like when people try try to say that Phantom is bad simply because they have problems meleeing people. I’m not saying you fire it incorrectly but I am pointing out how a person fire leads to how successful they are with it compared to the smaller pistols where you fire as fast as you can click.


(ProfPlump) #25

[quote=“Amerika;141274”][quote=“ProfPlump;140930”][quote=“Amerika;140912”]I have zero issues with the accuracy from hipfire of the revolvers because of how I pace my shots. Am I getting, “max dps”? Nope. Am I still finishing people off faster with a bigger chunk of life lost per shot I made sure would hit? Yup. Finishing a player with almost no HP in a big chunk with an aimed and accurate shot is better than spamming a button and chunking them down IMO.

People love the M9 because you can shoot it really fast and not worry about how you’re pacing your shots and it’s mag efficiency is pretty good. But if somebody is sitting at 25% HP I want a S&W so i can fire 1-2 shots and focus on my next target. I think giving them even more damage than they are capable of now would make them ridiculously good. And I already find them extremely good as it is.[/quote]

If the Magnums truly were extremely good and were better than sidearms with higher firerate, slightly lower DPS and high magazines, then NOBODY would pick the MO11 Vassili loadout over the MO93 (since MO93 has better augments but has a magnum instead of an MP400). (And I’m talking about the pub players and comp players here - everyone uses the M011 simply because it has the better sidearm instead of the S&W).

I really think your opinion is highly unpopular. Doesn’t 100% mean you’re wrong, but I’m definitely not sold.[/quote]

I am highly confused by your response. We are talking about pistols here I thought and not pistols vs. machine pistols. If I knew we were including the MP400 or even the Tolen/Emp9 then I would have said that, by comparison, the magnums are a bad option. Everyone takes MO11 because it has the MP400 and good augments.

So are we talking about revolvers here compared to other pistols or are we including machine pistols that really shouldn’t be in the same category?

Also, the revolvers are good at taking down large chunks of HP in a finishing situation when fired correctly. Many times when I see people fire them they are pulling the trigger as fast as possible and never hit anything. So depending on your perspective, which is based entirely on how you fire, dictates how “good” many people think they are. It’s like when people try try to say that Phantom is bad simply because they have problems meleeing people. I’m not saying you fire it incorrectly but I am pointing out how a person fire leads to how successful they are with it compared to the smaller pistols where you fire as fast as you can click.[/quote]

Fair point - I was just using the Mo11/Mo93 as an example because it’s a loadout choice that relies heavily on another sidearm being better than the revolver - not a lot of loadout choices are determined so heavily by the secondary weapon (usually it’s primary weapon and augment based).

But I do know how to use the magnums right. In fact, the hardest thing for me to learn now is for me to run TOWARDS my target while using the magnums, since they’re much more effective in those close ranges, rather than reversing and strafing like I do with other weapons. I also don’t just spam it, even in ADS (unless the target is standing still, say, repairing/disarming/arming and objective). I’m still learning more and more ways to use it more effectively, but I’m not stupid enough to be trying to use it like an SMG and then complaining when it doesn’t work the same way lol.

But I see what you’re saying about the fact that it requires a different set of skills, playstyles and strategies - all I’m saying is that even with using it properly, it still isn’t rewarding enough in my opinion, and it still comes down a fair bit to RNG, even when you’re using it right. I still think it needs to be a little more accurate, less spammy, and very slightly more range.


(Amerika) #26

See, from my perspective they are incredibly powerful. I hit with them because I don’t try to use the max rate of fire. I rarely even ADS with them or any pistol. The m9 and similar weapons are super popular because you can panic fire them and still kill where the revolvers are heavily dependent on not panic firing them and make sure you only fire when you’re crosshair is over people. They are great for finishing due to their ability to take off large chunks of HP with even body shots. I rarely fire more than twice with mine unless I completely screw the pooch.

I am totally cool with them getting buffed. I just don’t think it’s necessary as I believe they are mostly all in a good spot how they are. As you said, they require a completely different skillset and mindset to hit with and most of the people I see complaining about them tend to be people who think the m9 is good. Yeah, it’s good, but the reason why it’s good is because anybody can panic fire it and still hit…hence the popularity.


(Szakalot) #27

if i go up against a good player and they pull out a magnum there is always an ‘oh shit’ moment, as a quick headshot or a few bodyshots can end engagement extremely quickly.

I think its great how revolvers are high skill high reward weapons to be used in dueling up close, above all else.


(Dawnlazy) #28

Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)


(ProfPlump) #29

[quote=“Dawnrazor;148359”]Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)[/quote]

10% recoil nerf is not what was needed. It needed a bullet spread nerf (at least in my opinion). Recoil was very easy to control on it, actually.

And 10% reduction to recoil isn’t even noticeable anyway.


(Dawnlazy) #30

[quote=“ProfPlump;148448”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148359”]Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)[/quote]

10% recoil nerf is not what was needed. It needed a bullet spread nerf (at least in my opinion). Recoil was very easy to control on it, actually.

And 10% reduction to recoil isn’t even noticeable anyway.[/quote]

I’m being sarcastic you arschberger.

But seriously though, why on earth did they randomly nerf the recoil on the S&W? What could possibly have given them the impression that it needed a nerf?


(Sharpish101) #31

[quote=“Dawnrazor;148449”][quote=“ProfPlump;148448”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148359”]Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)[/quote]

10% recoil nerf is not what was needed. It needed a bullet spread nerf (at least in my opinion). Recoil was very easy to control on it, actually.

And 10% reduction to recoil isn’t even noticeable anyway.[/quote]

I’m being sarcastic you arschberger.

But seriously though, why on earth did they randomly nerf the recoil on the S&W? What could possibly have given them the impression that it needed a nerf?[/quote]

The nerf dart landed on the S&W and the buff dart landed on the Simeon, obviously.


(Dawnlazy) #32

[quote=“Sharpish101;148454”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148449”][quote=“ProfPlump;148448”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148359”]Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)[/quote]

10% recoil nerf is not what was needed. It needed a bullet spread nerf (at least in my opinion). Recoil was very easy to control on it, actually.

And 10% reduction to recoil isn’t even noticeable anyway.[/quote]

I’m being sarcastic you arschberger.

But seriously though, why on earth did they randomly nerf the recoil on the S&W? What could possibly have given them the impression that it needed a nerf?[/quote]

The nerf dart landed on the S&W and the buff dart landed on the Simeon, obviously.[/quote]

Dammit, and I use the S&W on Skyhammer. This patch has somehow screwed with all 5 of my main mercs (fire supports and Nader), worst patch ever since August Dreiss and Crotzni nerfs, never forgive never forget.


(Amerika) #33

[quote=“Dawnrazor;148449”][quote=“ProfPlump;148448”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148359”]Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)[/quote]

10% recoil nerf is not what was needed. It needed a bullet spread nerf (at least in my opinion). Recoil was very easy to control on it, actually.

And 10% reduction to recoil isn’t even noticeable anyway.[/quote]

I’m being sarcastic you arschberger.

But seriously though, why on earth did they randomly nerf the recoil on the S&W? What could possibly have given them the impression that it needed a nerf?[/quote]

Yeah, it was quite possibly the most odd change I’ve seen in a while.


(ASTOUNDINGSHELL) #34

@Amerika Welp, i have dome some, pretty odd stuff with that gun, headhsots on CC are kidn of a big FUCK YOU to msot mercs


(SzGamer227) #35

[quote=“Dawnrazor;148449”][quote=“ProfPlump;148448”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148359”]Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)[/quote]

10% recoil nerf is not what was needed. It needed a bullet spread nerf (at least in my opinion). Recoil was very easy to control on it, actually.

And 10% reduction to recoil isn’t even noticeable anyway.[/quote]

I’m being sarcastic you arschberger.

But seriously though, why on earth did they randomly nerf the recoil on the S&W? What could possibly have given them the impression that it needed a nerf?[/quote]

Well, if you take a look at their handy dandy chart, the more obvious question is: Why did they leave the Stelbstadt alone? Looks like it’s the only secondary weapon they didn’t touch this update, which is weird…


(ProfPlump) #36

[quote=“SzGamer227;149533”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148449”][quote=“ProfPlump;148448”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148359”]Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)[/quote]

10% recoil nerf is not what was needed. It needed a bullet spread nerf (at least in my opinion). Recoil was very easy to control on it, actually.

And 10% reduction to recoil isn’t even noticeable anyway.[/quote]

I’m being sarcastic you arschberger.

But seriously though, why on earth did they randomly nerf the recoil on the S&W? What could possibly have given them the impression that it needed a nerf?[/quote]

Well, if you take a look at their handy dandy chart, the more obvious question is: Why did they leave the Stelbstadt alone? Looks like it’s the only secondary weapon they didn’t touch this update, which is weird…

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/1yDJ77sT.jpg[/quote]

Most likely because that’s the balance level they’re trying to reach - they want to use the Selbstadt as the ideal level of viability and adjust the others accordingly to reach it?

I personally think it’s a stupid thing to do, but I think that’s their logic.


(Dawnlazy) #37

[quote=“ProfPlump;149535”][quote=“SzGamer227;149533”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148449”][quote=“ProfPlump;148448”][quote=“Dawnrazor;148359”]Well folks, this has been a greatly productive discussion, and the S&W has finally received the recoil nerf that it had always needed.

:^)[/quote]

10% recoil nerf is not what was needed. It needed a bullet spread nerf (at least in my opinion). Recoil was very easy to control on it, actually.

And 10% reduction to recoil isn’t even noticeable anyway.[/quote]

I’m being sarcastic you arschberger.

But seriously though, why on earth did they randomly nerf the recoil on the S&W? What could possibly have given them the impression that it needed a nerf?[/quote]

Well, if you take a look at their handy dandy chart, the more obvious question is: Why did they leave the Stelbstadt alone? Looks like it’s the only secondary weapon they didn’t touch this update, which is weird…

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/1yDJ77sT.jpg[/quote]

Most likely because that’s the balance level they’re trying to reach - they want to use the Selbstadt as the ideal level of viability and adjust the others accordingly to reach it?

I personally think it’s a stupid thing to do, but I think that’s their logic.[/quote]

Not to mention how the percentage differences are so low they might as well be accounted for by a simple margin of error. Terrible way to balance things.


(Floross) #38

Maybe it’s just me but I hate the deagle’s accuracy even when I spread my shots apart. On the other hand I’m a beast with Simeon and S&W.


(Hexen) #39

They could probably use a slight accuracy buff, but I think the problem isn’t how poorly they perform overall, it’s how poorly they perform compared to other sidearms. Most of the sidearms people actually use are either automatic, or encourage spam. I’d actually like to see the current sidearms perform more like the revolvers, being harder to use with lower mag capacity.


(ForgottenCrowd) #40

I play as Phantom and take out snipers by walking out into the open with my S&W, invisible, and putting my dot reticle right on their heads :confused:

I use the C94 and my weapon usage percentage is probably: katana-60%, S&W-38%, Kek-2%
I pretty much just walk around and line up headshots or flank with the katana lol

As for the Simeon, I use that on my S65 for Stoker and finish my second or third kill and finish them off. I sometimes go for long shot headshots and sneak attacks where I don’t want to use the Timik. It’s ok