Changes to Anti-Hack Policies – Zero Tolerance

(Gaspoline) #21

lol mustang has been here since at least 2013 (gettin dem top scores even back then)… why ban him now? D;

(mOist) #22

its xingcode , its crap i was banned on another game for using a program that changes the vibrance of the game (im legaly blind the game in question has a poor monotone pallet) hoenstly all it does is ban ppl with third party programs it never does anything to hackers.

(Gaspoline) #23

its xingcode , its crap i was banned on another game for using a program that changes the vibrance of the game (im legaly blind the game in question has a poor monotone pallet) hoenstly all it does is ban ppl with third party programs it never does anything to hackers.
[/quote]

do you know if it bans if those things are installed but like, not in use/running? ex: have a ts overlay installed on computer but not running it while playing the game? cuz I literally was only running steam when I got banned for 3rd party programs ._.

(Lumi) #24

I see alot of people complaining about missflaged third party programs, but in the end that is what a cheat is. It is a third party program that modifies or enhances your perception of the game, or sometimes even acts on it.

If people want an efficient anti-cheat program that’s a concession we have to make. To stay on the safe side just run the game unaltered and you’ll be fine.

(JBRAA) #25

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(LiNkz) #26

Weird feeling being afraid of cops even though you haven’t done anything wrong? :hushed: I feel exactly like that now when I play.

just the off-chance of being at the wrong place at wrong time and you suffer kind of deal.

(Kroad) #27

[quote=“LiNkz;19180”] Weird feeling being afraid of cops even though you haven’t done anything wrong? :hushed: I feel exactly like that now when I play.

just the off-chance of being at the wrong place at wrong time and you suffer kind of deal.[/quote]
srry youre not good enough for that :wink:

and i mean devs have watched tragedys stream without thinking anything was wrong, doubt any good player will get banned

(JBRAA) #28

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(Nail) #29

I have no confidence in xignpoop, afaik it bans mostly legit players

as for Nexon:

1: GMs are volunteers, they have nothing invested in the job so nothing to lose

2: it took well over a year to get a barely functioning forum up, it still doesn’t have last post indicators, unread post indicators outside the actual thread page, this forum is barely navigable

3: I highly doubt Nexon has a GM that could possibly judge most of the founders accurately, and without a peer based transparent system, bye bye comp

(RazielWarmonic) #30

I have some confidence that GMs will ban blatant over “iffy”. I’ve watched some footage where players could’ve been cheating, but there was no conclusive evidence, and because of that I let them slide and let the anti-cheat or VAC catch them otherwise. Now, there is a huge difference if you can see snapping, locking, etc, and I’m sure that is where the GMs come in.

If the GMs play enough, they should know some of the ‘bigger’ names and people who play vs. new players and cheaters. Also the flow of the game, mechanics like Heartbeat Sensors, etc.

If I had a dime for every time I’ve seen someone like Talespin or Bitey get hackusations, I’d have… well, a few dimes. But if you actually watch them there isn’t anything suspicious about their game play because of things like their positioning and awareness, which is another good way to determine hackers vs. legits.

(CC_FANG) #31

I’d like to clear up a few misconceptions here. <wall of text alert, lol>

Nexon’s GMs are not volunteers. It is an actual paid position with requirements and employee accountability. These people are not flunkies and have education and experience.

Second, claims of “evidence” being just observation, are incorrect. That’s just the possible first step in a situation where a ban may occur. Your reports may be 100% solid, visible proof but still an investigation must occur before a ban is issued. GMs have other tools at their disposal which can identify someone using a hack.

As the game develops, the GMs, as well as all of you, will gain knowledge of what is and is not possible, which could possibly trigger a report or investigation. Working together that is a powerful resource to combat the losers that need to cheat.

You will not see evidence that leads to a ban. Nexon does not provide that, simply because it compromises their methods of detecting cheats. It may seem unfair, but the moment such information is made public, the cheaters will get busy trying to find a way around the methods being used to detect them.

I know what a lot of you are saying, you’re good at the game and fear an inexperienced GM could come along and think your gameplay is impossible without cheating. I was the same way back in another game. I got good, fast. I would literally stop playing and take a few deaths when I was landing shots and getting kill streaks which others just were not getting. Sure, maybe I was reported a few times; in fact if I was reported all the times I’ve been threatened they’d need a separate hard drive just to store them all, haha. This kind of thinking comes from lack of information. Neither I nor the community knew any different, and that leads to speculation and assumptions with no basis on facts – simply because there are no facts out there.

I’m just a volunteer, but I’ve been working closely with various Nexon employees for five years now. Without exception, I’ve found them to be friendly, professional, and fun. That aside, I’ve been able to get direct information regarding things like procedures for bans and reports and confirm that there is a definite process. Evidence is collected, the player is investigated, and action is taken if the situation merits. You aren’t going to get banned for simply playing well, no matter how well that may be.

As a failsafe, there is an appeals process for account bans. You can submit a ticket or even chat live at certain times. If you’re certain a mistake has been made, you do have recourse. However, if the GM is sitting there looking at blatant evidence that you were running a hack, you can expect that your appeal will be unsuccessful.

Most of you don’t know me well yet, but I will tell you this - I despise cheating. I’ve run communities dedicated to exposing cheaters. I also feel strongly about people being falsely accused of cheating, and have been dedicated to seeing they receive justice. The bottom line is, I’m on your side in all this. I’m a part of the community just like you. I may not have all the answers you want, but hopefully my experiences can put some of you at ease.

(mOist) #32

@satisfyingCove oh come on please a program which alters the colours of a game should never be flagged as a hack EVER, i even asked the Gameforge if using said program was bannable and was told “NO” all it does is help em to actually see , how horrible right? and yet i got a ban for it , currently the anticheat has flagged people for anti-virus software , TS overlays etc , this is 100% unacceptable and the fact you are making excuses for them is sad ,it really is.

(JBRAA) #33

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(watsyurdeal) #34

I think people need to get a good look at what actual bots are, before they call hacks.

Cause I’ve had that happen in game where someone would call it out, yet the K:D I saw was something I managed to do before. And my K:D is inconsistent, some days I’m awesome, other days not so much. Depends on my mindset and how well this pos PC can hold together, thankfully my new rig will be up this week so one less thing to worry about. Just need to get it down.

But I’m glad the people who give out bans don’t do what everyone else does and jumps to conclusions.

Really really appreciate that. :slight_smile:

(Lumi) #35

The way I see it is that, indeed for anti-virus and other non gaming related issues a ban is unacceptable. But a program that alters the color palette of the game is an enhancment and can become an advantage.

I know of some people who buy special screens that manage very high level of color contrasts to gain an edge in spoting the ennemy better than with any regular screen and altering the color palette of the game is altering the game as is! It might not be considered a cheat just as an overlay is, but any well conceived hack can use these methods to never touch the games code and still provide you with a wallhack and then fly under the radar.

Get a sense of what is possible cheating wise and you’ll realize that if the anti-cheat would allow such programs then it would open the gate for a number of cheats that run by applying similar techniques.

The only other solution is an ad hoc system and that requires a constant addition of all the hacks to a flagging list and then still it’s easy to change a few lines of code and not be recognizable anymore.

So I do fully understand that an anti cheat program will set off false positives if it’s expected to perform well, and regarding antivirus false positives, that can only be solved through intercompany comunication of both anti cheat and antivirus systems.

(D'@athi) #36

Just reminds me of an ATI-driver around 2000 somewhen. It had a setting to alter every single texturecolor of the palette to transparent. Obviously just a help for claustrophobic people i guess.
And probably going on, some parkinson patient could argue he needs an aimbot, because he can’t keep his aim steady.

As bad as your situation might be @Moist , the anticheat has to protect the community, and for this every cheat will have to be banned on sight.
But I do think you did send a medical attest, signed by a relevant authority of your country to Nexon at first, to clear your usage of this cheat? And after this you did give them the time to check if your papers were legal?
If this is true it really comes down to a bad, bad customer support, i guess. And your complaints are indeed right. And this has to be changed. You will never be able to get totally rid of false alerts, but you will have to have people sorting them out.

Taking it over to another program could be helping, but even in cs:go it only needs 2 servers/maps in casual-mode to be able to spec some idiot tracing people through walls. But ok, given, probably already flagged, still harrasing the community and by it getting a h*** small one.
And when it comes to competetive play you probably won’t be able to get the all rofessional cheaters by any means. Probably letting everyone use a locked-in propertery system, but…

But to be honest, if my opinion, if at first the obvious ones will be handled, it would be a HUGE relief in this stage of beeing flooded by them.
After this getting whatever anticheat working better and this will have to be a priority, but first getting rid of all these cheap idiots should be a top one.

(goodAntelope) #37

Just a quick question for @MissMurder or @GM_Radrodo. Is using an overlay program (for art, banners for streamers, etc…), specifically Playclaw, is that something that is bannable? I know some games anti cheat systems can mistake it for as such but it is not.

(Mustang) #38

2012 actually :slight_smile:

I’m actually getting kicked from the game by XIGNCODE again today for “suspicious program detected” and I’m not running anything different that I’ve been running for the last 3 years.

Oh FFS, and you changed the detection thingie again?

I’m getting kicked for using the same program that I’ve been using for the last 8 years, well before DB was even started, can you please stop bending me over and just ban some real hackers instead?

Nexon listen to their players? Let’s see it then please because I’m fed up with this nonsense that’s been dragging on for nearly 2 years now.

I’m sure you are, but sadly nice doesn’t cut it, Nexon need to adjust their attitude towards regular players and stop treating everyone as hackers just because they play DB with the exact same background processes and VOIP overlays that work absolutely fine with every other game I’ve ever played.

I said I was worried by this new policy, and the very next time I try to play the game after it’s been turned on I’m proved right.

Surely you must have been collecting some sort of data and can at least whitelist non-hack programs.

The last time I tried to collect some data for you on what programs need to be whitelisted I ended up banned for too many false positives or something, no-one from Nexon support would assist me in resolving the situation, and now we come to the same thing again and still nothing is whitelisted so it’s happening all over again.

Having never encountered Nexon before this collaboration with SD I was open minded and positive, sadly it feels like you’re not interested in projecting a positive image of yourselves, which saddens me. I hear Amazon customer facing personnel have 2-3 coaching sessions a week on how to treat customers, out of interest how many do Nexon personnel have?

It absolutely should be allowed, bet it isn’t though, Nexon need to buck up their ideas.

(MissMurder) #39

Here is a basic list of things to watch out for. http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/10760/programs-that-will-get-you-flagged-banned

@JBRAA rest assured GMs aren’t going to see players who are doing very well and ban them out the gate. Investigations will occur and if they don’t have the hard evidence we can’t ban. Simple as that. As for xigncode - although we have all been doing our best to make sure it’s doing it’s job properly we still aren’t ruling out other cheat programs and may very well go with another. We ultimately want the best experience for players and being strict on cheaters and hackers is something everyone on the team feels strongly about. @Mustang i’m sorry that you’re having trouble and I know you had this happen to you in the past with xigncode. Those list of programs that I linked all do carry a threat of enabling some cheats though and we have to be cautious.

(Mustang) #40

So are you looking at solutions and improvements, or just tough luck?