Can you please stop forcing the counter strike gamemode missions on us when...

#21

You are the first person who got past the thread title!

(Apples) #22

Nail got it also, even thought he responded with cynism, as Nail does best ^^

(watsyurdeal) #23

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;542053]Your point was an opinion

Regardless of what you may think about the way the gun fights are handled, you opinion doesn’t make your statement fact. The games play differently, end of, we’re verging on my ‘bull****’ territory meter ringing alarms from up on high. You’re idea is basically replaced CS’ weapon purchases with merc purchases, which is basically ‘make it more like CS’… when your complain is that its too much like like CS? We’re back to the fact that no, it doesn’t play like CS as I’ve played both and the experience is COMPLETELY different. You’re going with same mechanic = same experience which is DING DING DING bull****. This follows onto the fact that CS isn’t “far superior” as they aren’t even doing the same thing. A lemon drizzle cake isn’t an inferior version of chocolate cake because they both have sponge in them. It’s not trying to ‘beat CS’, it’s trying to be its own thing which it does due to classes, abilities, revives, healing, deployables.[/quote]

And the thing is that execution is such a different experience from the typical Dirty Bomb that you have to question why does this even exist?

You have to realize the reality of that game mode, there’s no risk, no real sacrifices other than you die once and that’s it if you don’t get revived. There’s no risk in using your abilities when they recharge, even air strikes you can argue have very little risk involved since anyone with decent prediction can throw a strike and have it clear out at least a couple people or more, now imagine that multiplied for every Skyhammer on the server. Not to mention the fact that each character starts with their abilities at the ready. Phoneix’s self revive, all of the Supports Strike’s, the motion sensor from Vasilli, a major one actually, throw down the common route for a or b, and bam, you know exactly how many are pushing that way, and where the rest are going.

It’s not just a simple opinion when you can point out numerous flaws and conflicting design choices between execution and stopwatch. The obvious being that Stopwatch is built around the cooldown for the abilities as well as special kits, like the defib and engineer kit, plus, the obvious spawn wave system. Execution is NOT built for these, at all, and it, like many other things is an idea that should have been left in Alpha.

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;542053]
See previous comment of ‘not trying to beat CS’. I also get the feeling that a lot of folk are pissed off at the mode because it takes time away from obj/SW which is just sad really. And yes mate, it’s a straight opinion, even more so because you simply fail to comprehend that Execution has the very very basic core of CS, then goes off as its own thing well beyond that. You’ve either not played CS or you’ve not played Execution, and I can bet you could ask any regular CS player if they play the same and he’d laugh at you.

Also it’s not going anywhere, so there’s that as well.[/QUOTE]

I can assure you I’ve played both CS and Execution plenty, I’ve played Source and Global Offensive. And I HAVE to play execution for the missions, and each time I do play, it does ultimately devolve into tdm.

Anyone who comes into Dirty Bomb and plays Execution first is immediately thinking Counter Strike, since there is barely anyone who has not played it on PC. The game has over 250,000 players a day, and you’re honestly telling me they aren’t going to draw comparisons?

If you want this game to do it’s own thing, then it needs to actually make game modes that fit it’s design, not tacked on for extra content. It’s a ****ing waste of code as far as I’m concerned, and I can guarantee you I am not in the minority on that.

(Rémy Cabresin) #24

We are now, because SD is actually focusing on the casual side of the game. The way they’ve set up Execution as the first thing that gets introduced to new player first just screams that they don’t give a single **** about what the game was initially meant to be. Stopwatch players are fewer every day as that side of the game and especially competitive is just being plain ignored, new players mostly see Execution as the main gamemode. Wouldn’t surprise me in a few months competitive main gamemode becomes Execution because at that point they’ve literally aimed everyone towards it, forcing it into become the majority vote. I’ve been one of Dirty Bombs strongest enthusiasts from day 1 as a Founder, but the last 6 months(honestly since steam entrance) they seem to have completely shifted to not giving a single **** about the veterans of the genre and making a casual pubfest, reeling in all the 14 year olds who only care about having a game that gives them a participation award at every action they make. Hope someone at the top of SD/Nexon is just going to hardball the main guys directing DB atm and hopefully even fire them because it’s the same incompetence that cost them a success with Brink.

Yes I am mad, because I’ve been trying to convince people that SD knows what they are doing but today I’ve read a conversation with a certain dev that just confirms that anyone who has any interest in competitive Stopwatch should give up on DB :slight_smile: Genuinely hope they prove me wrong, but I won’t be waiting for it anymore.

(DarkangelUK) #25

[QUOTE=adeto;542075]
Yes I am mad, because I’ve been trying to convince people that SD knows what they are doing but today I’ve read a conversation with a certain dev that just confirms that anyone who has any interest in competitive Stopwatch should give up on DB :slight_smile: Genuinely hope they prove me wrong, but I won’t be waiting for it anymore.[/QUOTE]

Care to mention the dev? Because I’ve had conversations with a certain dev and I got pretty much the opposite conclusion from it.

(DarkangelUK) #26

Lots of people asked for a different mode to be added as they believed DB couldn’t exist as a ‘one trick pony’. Initially TDM was added, I never played it myself but I can only assume it wasn’t working since they removed it. Execution was initially derived from Gears of War’s Execution Mode where all you had to do was finish the other team off and that was it. A lot of people felt it was a bit all over the place, no real focus and games were taking too long, so we requested C4 plants to focus the combat and drive players to encounter each other more instead of playing it safe and just surviving till the round ended. The majority of players requested more modes, not the minority, and most agreed that choice is better than lack of it.

You have to realize the reality of that game mode, there’s no risk, no real sacrifices other than you die once and that’s it if you don’t get revived. There’s no risk in using your abilities when they recharge, even air strikes you can argue have very little risk involved since anyone with decent prediction can throw a strike and have it clear out at least a couple people or more, now imagine that multiplied for every Skyhammer on the server. Not to mention the fact that each character starts with their abilities at the ready. Phoneix’s self revive, all of the Supports Strike’s, the motion sensor from Vasilli, a major one actually, throw down the common route for a or b, and bam, you know exactly how many are pushing that way, and where the rest are going.

All of this is just your personal gripes about the mode so we can leave that to the side. My gripes are more to do with map layout and the bias towards one side (e.g. def can jump on top of a train on Overground and easily see which plant point the attackers are going to, removing the risk of going to the wrong place).

It’s not just a simple opinion when you can point out numerous flaws and conflicting design choices between execution and stopwatch. The obvious being that Stopwatch is built around the cooldown for the abilities as well as special kits, like the defib and engineer kit, plus, the obvious spawn wave system. Execution is NOT built for these, at all, and it, like many other things is an idea that should have been left in Alpha.

It is a simple opinion when it can vary between person. Facts are indisputable, the fact me and you are on opposite ends of it proves here and now that this is your opinion… and no matter how popular you think it may be, a popular opinion is still an opinion. I think it works well, so it yes, it is built for it… see, here we are with our opinions again :slight_smile:

I can assure you I’ve played both CS and Execution plenty, I’ve played Source and Global Offensive. And I HAVE to play execution for the missions, and each time I do play, it does ultimately devolve into tdm.

And when I play I speak on voice comms with my team and we organise points to go to, who’s going first, if we encounter enemies, how many defenders, if I’ve been jumped. The experience is what you make it, and I suspect you’re going out there with a TDM attitude.

Anyone who comes into Dirty Bomb and plays Execution first is immediately thinking Counter Strike, since there is barely anyone who has not played it on PC. The game has over 250,000 players a day, and you’re honestly telling me they aren’t going to draw comparisons?

Whoa there fellow, I never said there aren’t comparisons to make, my whole argument is that the experience is completely different once you get over the fact that they sound the same on paper.

If you want this game to do it’s own thing, then it needs to actually make game modes that fit it’s design, not tacked on for extra content. It’s a ****ing waste of code as far as I’m concerned, and I can guarantee you I am not in the minority on that.

Right so we’re at the saltyness being your core reason for hating it as its taking time away from obj/SW development? Cool, glad we got that sorted. I hate when time is wasted on obj/SW because they’re in a state where I don’t want to play them, and I played RtCW, ET and ETQW for hundreds, probably thousands of hours each. However, I know it’ll never be in a state that will suit me, and rather than being a dick and asking them to remove it or change it just to suit me, i’ll carry on playing what I do enjoy instead.

(Szakalot) #27

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DarkangelUK again.

(rookie1) #28

I just can’t believe that all game mode are already all invented…and none can’t be find for DB originality.New ideas for game mode will probly just gather dust in forum threads …No "let’s try it " and no trial patch… …anyways :frowning:

(Glottis-3D) #29

i wonder, is there statictics on how many ppl play Execution, in comparison to other mods?

(spookify) #30

To the original thread topic is also wish there was no execution mode missions but i also with there were no Objective mode missions.

Idea: I like the idea of the mode based missions but maybe let us choose which mode we want?

Im pretty much done with execution mode because of a lot of reasons stated above. Also as stated beforw the meta will catch up and just be camping a bomb site and spam spam spam which is something DB is really good at.

Personally what keeps me playing/pubbing is grinding the missions. They are fun especially when you need to have a merc in your squad that you hardly play.

SD is on the right track with missions and just needs to fine tune them to fit everyone. I would sugguest “more” missions but credits are very easy to come by and we want people to spend real money. So Im torn on putting more missions in however side daily missions to earn crates or other things that are coming into the game will also work.

I still think you should be able to burn crates for around 1000 credits to use on other things. I have something like 15 pages of cards and I only use bronze.

I would trade up my bronze to silver BUT I cant remember which bronze cards I like or use so I dont risk it

(watsyurdeal) #31

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;542078]Lots of people asked for a different mode to be added as they believed DB couldn’t exist as a ‘one trick pony’. Initially TDM was added, I never played it myself but I can only assume it wasn’t working since they removed it. Execution was initially derived from Gears of War’s Execution Mode where all you had to do was finish the other team off and that was it. A lot of people felt it was a bit all over the place, no real focus and games were taking too long, so we requested C4 plants to focus the combat and drive players to encounter each other more instead of playing it safe and just surviving till the round ended. The majority of players requested more modes, not the minority, and most agreed that choice is better than lack of it.

All of this is just your personal gripes about the mode so we can leave that to the side. My gripes are more to do with map layout and the bias towards one side (e.g. def can jump on top of a train on Overground and easily see which plant point the attackers are going to, removing the risk of going to the wrong place).

It is a simple opinion when it can vary between person. Facts are indisputable, the fact me and you are on opposite ends of it proves here and now that this is your opinion… and no matter how popular you think it may be, a popular opinion is still an opinion. I think it works well, so it yes, it is built for it… see, here we are with our opinions again :slight_smile:

And when I play I speak on voice comms with my team and we organise points to go to, who’s going first, if we encounter enemies, how many defenders, if I’ve been jumped. The experience is what you make it, and I suspect you’re going out there with a TDM attitude.

Whoa there fellow, I never said there aren’t comparisons to make, my whole argument is that the experience is completely different once you get over the fact that they sound the same on paper.

Right so we’re at the saltyness being your core reason for hating it as its taking time away from obj/SW development? Cool, glad we got that sorted. I hate when time is wasted on obj/SW because they’re in a state where I don’t want to play them, and I played RtCW, ET and ETQW for hundreds, probably thousands of hours each. However, I know it’ll never be in a state that will suit me, and rather than being a dick and asking them to remove it or change it just to suit me, i’ll carry on playing what I do enjoy instead.[/QUOTE]

Look, you seem like a swell guy, but you have to be honest. Dirty Bomb’s core is stopwatch, there is no disputing that, the spawn waves, the abilities, the classification and abilites of the merc, it all is tailored toward stopwatch. So when I say execution doesn’t fit Dirty Bomb, that literally is the reason why, at it’s core, execution is nothing more than tacked on content. And my problem with that is all the time they spent hyping it up and coding it, could have been spent towards a game mode that actually FITS.

Why not headquarters? Which is essentially KOTH, but once the point is captured by a team, they stop spawning until the enemy team destroys the point or recaptures it, and then the next point comes up and the cycle continues. THAT actually makes sense, the revives, the engineer’s kit, the support abilities allowing your team to buy time on the point, the assault and recon class dm potential, and so on. THAT would have been a good mode.

What about CTF? Or Domination? These are all game modes that would have Dirty Bomb’s speed and pacing, Execution in my mind does not fit, and there would have to be a ton of changes made to it before it feels like a game mode worth people’s time.

And as far as one trick pony is concerned, Battlefield for a long period of time was just that, and it was immensely popular, or how about Tribes? CTF was the game’s bread and butter, and it was still a damn good game. Then of course the obvious, Counter Strike, nuf said, and then Quake, best Death Match game I can think of.

There’s nothing wrong with a game having a core game mode and being built around it, so long as it does so well that nobody else can compare. So why are we wasting time on execution when Stopwatch could be so much more?

(Glottis-3D) #32

i am on the stopwatch side.
i like pace, i like building attack or defence, fixing mistakes, regrouping.
I like spawnwaves and timing, that should be connected to it.

stopwatch is a forgiving mode, and i like that. that is why i think it should be introduced to newbs to more extent. because it forgives your mistakes. You can re-think, rebuild, regroup during a single match even during a single objective.

i am not against execution, if ppl love it - they let them play it. but KOTH and DOmination would be better imho.

(Kendle) #33

No they’re not, they’re tailored towards completing an objective, nothing more, nothing less. All 3 current game modes include completing an objective.

Stopwatch is simply a mechanic that enables Objective mode to be played in a way that results in fairer competition, for those situations where fair competition matters, such as competitive play.

RTCW invented the objective style gameplay that persisted through ET, ET:QW, Brink and into DB, and RTCW was originally played in pure Objective mode. The first RTCW competitions were 7-v-7 Objective, until it was realised that an odd little add-on the RTCW devs included that no-one thought would amount to anything, called Stopwatch, was actually a better way of playing Objective. RTCW in fact had several game modes, and all of them used the same classes as all the others.

I read an interview with the RTCW devs once who said the whole MP was an after-thought. They took Assault mode from Unreal Tournament and classes from Team Fortress, mashed them together and thought no more of it. The whole concept of Objective that has you and I still here 15 years later talking about these things was simply a happy accident! :slight_smile:

ET, which itself was only meant to be an expansion pack for RTCW and then released as a standalone game due to lack of interest / funding from the publishers, had an entirely new main game mode whereby maps were linked together into Campaigns, primarily to show off ET’s other new innovation, the XP system.

In that sense DB’s defining attributes are no more “designed for SW” than any other mode.

In fact, DB’s implementation of SW, with synchronous spawns, no side objectives, no forward spawns, a clunky mechanism to declare a winner based on who did most of the map rather than who completed all of it fastest, is a piss-poor implementation of SW, and one to be avoided unless you really are a glutton for punishment (or never played any of it’s predecessors, ALL of whom did it better, even Brink).

(Cankor) #34

[QUOTE=Kendle;542091]
In fact, DB’s implementation of SW, with synchronous spawns, no side objectives, no forward spawns, a clunky mechanism to declare a winner based on who did most of the map rather than who completed all of it fastest, is a piss-poor implementation of SW, and one to be avoided unless you really are a glutton for punishment (or never played any of it’s predecessors, ALL of whom did it better, even Brink).[/QUOTE]

What’s clunky about declaring a winner based on who did more of the objectives during full holds. or a tie if both teams did the same number? Maybe I am missing something but isn’t that the only time who did more objectives comes into play?

And IMO Brink’s stopwatch mode wasn’t better. In Brink, when you completed an objective, instead of immediately continuing from where you were it was like starting a whole new map from the beginning, there was no continuity. Not only that, but the spawn timers were the same for both stopwatch and objective modes if I remember correctly and stopwatch never had the offensive bias it needed because of that (been awhile, I might be remembering that part wrong)…

In DB, it looks like they are trying to “balance” the maps with an offensive bias for stopwatch using an identical spawn timer for each side, but changing the timers for objective mode in order to get as close to no bias at all for that mode. I’m sure the plan is to keep tweaking the objective mode timer to get close to 50/50 win.loss ratios, while leaving the stopwatch timers set and unchanging for continuity. It’s not that important if a map has a 65% offensive bias or a 70% offensive bias in stopwatch so long as it is there, but in objective mode you want it as close to 50/50 as possible, 45/55 isn’t really good enough as people will tend to switch sides when they can because of it.

I get the missing forward spawns gripe. I don’t get the missing side missions gripe, they are there, building/destroying generators to open up new routes. I think one reason they veered away from a lot of the side missions from ET RtCW was they were trying to focus the combat/gameplay at the critical point and not have everyone spread all over the map. One epic battle everyone is involved in for the main objective which really matters because if you lose there is no going back, as opposed to several smaller battles over things that can get destroyed/rebuilt easily so the fight isn’t as important, which is potentially why the side objectives are relatively close to the main ones (so you can re-join the main fight quicker and easier).

(BioSnark) #35

To the original topic, Execution should not be the default selection for quick play because it is a poor environment to learn the game for everyone on the server due to death penalties. Execution should be level 5+ imo (which is really easy to get to) and the mode needs min 10 servers or to be an option in ranked.

(Kendle) #36

Yeah OK, perhaps I shouldn’t have mentioned Brink, but it says something about the state DB is in that there’s even an argument to be had comparing it to Brink. :slight_smile:

Enough off-topic, Execution is fine, it’s not CS, but there certainly is an argument that it shouldn’t be the go-to mode for new players. It’s much easier for new players to learn the ropes if they respawn every 25 seconds rather than only every couple of minutes. Objective should be the default, with both Execution and SW only available at something like LVL5+, IMHO.

(Szakalot) #37

Definitely agree and really hope they roll back the execution as go-to mode; it really doesn’t work and makes DB look (to an ignorant eye) like a CS-wannabe.

(Cankor) #38

Agree execution should not be the default game mode for new players. Doing so in the name of accessibility and bringing in new players is counter-productive.

Don’t think there should even be a default, just list them all and let new players pick whatever is most appealing to them. If they want to play stopwatch, even better, put them in max level five servers and everything is good.

(Rémy Cabresin) #39
  1. Make “Objective-mode” more on par with 1 half of Stopwatch, use the normal SW spawnwave system for it. Personally I’d remove the ‘add time per completed objective’ thing they have going on there but you could keep that in just to speed up very unbalanced matches.
  2. Make Quickjoin level 1 that fixed Objective mode. I think people pick up the game much faster in SW/OBJ due to the nature of the spawnwave system(giving them more playtime per minute). Execution is easier to understand as a gamemode and I’m assuming SD made it the level 1 mode because it allows newbies to not worry about the gamemode but focus on learning the mercs, which I think is a reasonable idea in theory but in practise it’s creating a much bigger gap between new EXE players and SW mode.
  3. Stopwatch mode unlocked at level 3.
  4. At level 5 introduce the players to the server browser, where they can find EXE and other non-main modes. Remove EXE from the quickjoin options. Actively promoting SW as the main gamemode but allowing players who want to move away from that mode to do so using the server browser. This way you could even start doing some stuff like 24/7 Whitechapel servers in the serverbrowser etc, and other random ideas.

Fixed.

(Nail) #40

I think objective should be the default mode and people need to prove they can play (X wins) before they can access any others, but I’m afraid California outvotes London as well