Calculating memory requirements

(G0-Gerbil) #21

Boo hiss - lowering the lightgrid didn’t achieve much - it saved me maybe 1 meg on hunkmegs but I need to save another 5 anyway (to bring it down to using the same as the highest official map - which for hunkmegs usage is Fueldump at 49 megs - seems like each map hits a different limit!).
It also created lighting anomolies on some of the misc_models (turning them black) so I’ll have to go and start clipping the back faces of the caves. sigh
But worth it in the end, just caves bore me right now!

(Detoeni) #22

Have you added the lightgrid shader to that big box of yours, or did you just change the values in the world spawn?

Also the leaf count could be reduced down with out too much work. 2000 easy 1000 maybe a bit more work depending on how often the big area needs to be split to compile and on the caves structual layout.

(G0-Gerbil) #23

Leaf count should be ‘reasonably’ low given what’s going on - the structural hull is pretty basic (gets a bit messy inside, but still not what you’d call complex).
Certainly it’s lower than virtually all the official maps, which is pretty much the only measure I have to go by.

I’ll stick that on the list of things to play with should the ‘reducing planes’ thingy in the caves not work out - in which case expect a PM from me begging for help :wink:

As for the lightgrid - initially I reduced it from err… 256 256 256 to 512 512 512. It saved me a meg but accuracy was pants.
In the current compile I’m doing (to test the caves / planes thing) I’ve stuck the lightgrid back to 256 256 256 and done what you suggested - added the lightgrid shader.
Unfortunately, the top of the tower is poking outside of that box, but if I include that then I have to include a HYUGE amount of dead air space - the joys of the single tower poking up high in an otherwise broad map.
I’ll see how much that saves to see if it’s worth it - bit disappointed it didn’t save more than it did, so might just scrap that idea and focus on the caves for now (which should definately help fingers crossed).

(G0-Gerbil) #24

BTW regarding the number of in-game entities you should use and how many leave free, the only thing I could find was this reference:

http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=4479&highlight=inline+models

Damocle’s 2nd post on that thread. He says you should never have more than 700 which is at odds with the number used by the official maps (although granted, only over by a bit).
I’d PM and ask for his source but as long as we have a rough guideline to work to, I’m not unduly worried where the figures come from.

(Detoeni) #25

Leaf count could be a little better, bellow is a bit of an extreme example as the map was designed around a very efficent hull.

C:/Program Files/Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory/etmain/maps/dt_aa_beta_a9.bsp
Abstracted BSP file components (*actual sizes may differ)
        2 models               80
      183 shaders           13176
    19311 brushes          231732
   199145 brushsides      2389740 *
        2 fogs                144
   108872 planes          1741952
       30 entdata            2396

      682 nodes             24552
      685 leafs             32880
    13134 leafsurfaces      52536
    39798 leafbrushes      159192

     8846 drawsurfaces    1309208 *
   113937 drawverts       9114960 *
   129753 drawindexes      519012

        0 lightmaps             0
   295528 lightgrid       8865840 *
          visibility        11688

          total          12680136
                            12382 KB
                               12 MB

I was expecting more of an improvement from the light grid shader, odd.

(G0-Gerbil) #26

Me too, although using the lightgrid shader gives me roughly the same results with 256 256 256 as I got from the whole map at 512 512 512 so that’s pretty cool.
Having just re-done the map to test, the obvious changes were:

Brushsides down by 4000
Planes down by 8000
Nodes down by 200
Leafs down by 400

Oddly enough drawsurfaces, drawverts and drawindexes all rose, but then I did also stick in a few bits more detail (I know I know, but I couldn’t help it!).
But I only tweaked maybe 5% of the caves, so I think multiplying up the results should be more than enough to help - while the overall changes might only affect the values by a small amount, I think that’s all I need since I’m pretty close to what I need now anyway.

I’m suprised leaf count changed - I thought that was a direct corrolation to the structural set up of the map, which hasn’t actually changed, so am a bit confused - could you explain exactly what a ‘leaf’ is so I can get some idea of why the count has dropped a little bit in my last build, and why having fewer is a good thing? :slight_smile:
I do know that the structural hull of HD is pretty good (I did get sloppy towards the end though I’ll admit!) - you have to bear in mind the caves are a nightmare of criss-crossing and weirdly shaped bits that didn’t convert into nice little rectangular passageways though :slight_smile:

It’s all my bad planning I’m sure!

(Detoeni) #27

Basicly a leaf is a volume thats used to work out what areas the player can see into and which they cant. (To be more correct it works by what leaf can see into other leafs)

They are also used to store map infomation in the bsp and your light compile is also based on your leaf layout. A efficent the layout gives you fast map compile, and a faster running bsp because its organisation is simpler and smaller.

(G0-Gerbil) #28

Ah well if it boils down to reasonably efficient structural layout then I’m kinda in the point where I can’t do much more with HD.
I could simplify the structura, well, not actual structurals, but hint brushes, but I had to do what I’ve done to get a passable framerate - hence yeah outside particularly there’s a fair few criss-crossing hint brushes which don’t make particularly nice data for speed / size of processing, but without them it runs like a dog - and one thing I’d hope never to be accused of is creating unduly slow maps :slight_smile:
Bear in mind a full compile of HD takes maybe 3/4 of an hour, so it’s bearable in that sense.

Maybe I’ll take another look at the structural in the caves though ‘just in case’ :slight_smile: