Bushwhacker + Spotting

(Drac0rion) #21

Thanks for clearing that up, but I do believe that’s just more representing your point of view, which does have valid reasoning behind it, but if it was true, I would have expected Fletcher’s ability to be nerfed to work more like a defense merc long ago.
If SD wanted Fletcher to be limited to defense like currently the rest of the engineers, they could have simply added an arming time for the stickys, which would make them obsolete in active combat while still keeping them as decent trap tools.

(hawkeyeguy99) #22

I find Bushwhacker’s turret completely useless in its current state. Any slightly experienced player will check his corners and know the hiding spots for turrets. Then all you have to do is play peek-a-boo with it until it dies. It’s not very effective in its current state against experienced players.

(Equanimity) #23

The engies with more “defensive” abilities still have plenty of useful applications in “re-takes” when playing these engies on defense.

Proxy = Pizza Delivery, or if you clear the ‘site’ for a moment a few good mines to watch your back while defusing.
Bushwhacker = Pinning the enemy by denying a choke or setting up a crossfire, or again, using the sentry as a diversion and/or cover while defusing, even as a physical bullet sponge.
Turtle = Blocking passage ways, making it easier to fight in certain unfavorable situations/locations, and/or putting up a barricade to crouch behind while defusing.

I’d rather have any of these in a situation where I am actively about to defuse, than Fletcher’s stickies which require time to use effectively, as opposed to preventing or delaying problems before they occur.

TL;DR - Engies are balanced. If anything is needed at all maybe a slight cooldown buff or sentry buff for Mr.Bush, but I feel plenty confident with him.

P.S. - To the idea in OP. I don’t think making the Lock-On perk meaningless or near-meaningless is by far the right approach. Maybe adding in some front-loaded damage like a shotgun blast with an internal cooldown on initial lock-on would be nice, but by no means should we be nerfing one of his major perks in a meager attempt to appropriately balance him against some of the other engies. The idea of synergism with recons’ spotting abilities is nice in general, though.

(JJMAJR) #24

Is there anything in the original post that could address that @Hawkeyeguy99 ?

[quote=“Dracorion;194700”]Thanks for clearing that up, but I do believe that’s just more representing your point of view, which does have valid reasoning behind it, but if it was true, I would have expected Fletcher’s ability to be nerfed to work more like a defense merc long ago.
If SD wanted Fletcher to be limited to defense like currently the rest of the engineers, they could have simply added an arming time for the stickys, which would make them obsolete in active combat while still keeping them as decent trap tools.[/quote]

I actually heard from a friend that one of SD’s devs actually like Fletcher. It’s hard not to see why, his intended play style seems like a fun idea considering TF2’s Demoman.

However, I’d ask for some more data before making such claims.

[quote=“Equanimity;194737”]The engies with more “defensive” abilities still have plenty of useful applications in “re-takes” when playing these engies on defense.

Proxy = Pizza Delivery, or if you clear the ‘site’ for a moment a few good mines to watch your back while defusing.
Bushwhacker = Pinning the enemy by denying a choke or setting up a crossfire, or again, using the sentry as a diversion and/or cover while defusing, even as a physical bullet sponge.
Turtle = Blocking passage ways, making it easier to fight in certain unfavorable situations/locations, and/or putting up a barricade to crouch behind while defusing.

I’d rather have any of these in a situation where I am actively about to defuse, than Fletcher’s stickies which require time to use effectively, as opposed to preventing or delaying problems before they occur.

TL;DR - Engies are balanced. If anything is needed at all maybe a slight cooldown buff or sentry buff for Mr.Bush, but I feel plenty confident with him.

P.S. - To the idea in OP. I don’t think making the Lock-On perk meaningless or near-meaningless is by far the right approach. Maybe adding in some front-loaded damage like a shotgun blast with an internal cooldown on initial lock-on would be nice, but by no means should we be nerfing one of his major perks in a meager attempt to appropriately balance him against some of the other engies. The idea of synergism with recons’ spotting abilities is nice in general, though.[/quote]

Lock-On still increases the rotation speed of the turret, as well as the reaction time. With Lock-On giving 30% reduced delay to reacting to enemies and rotating to shoot said enemies, the bonus stacks multiplicatively, making the turret react 51% faster to enemies.

When the reaction time is instant, the turret’s reaction time is still decreased by 30% to account for the rotation speed.

(JJMAJR) #25

I decided to create another comment about @Equanimity and his reply here.

[quote=“Equanimity;194737”]Proxy = Pizza Delivery, or if you clear the ‘site’ for a moment a few good mines to watch your back while defusing.
Bushwhacker = Pinning the enemy by denying a choke or setting up a crossfire, or again, using the sentry as a diversion and/or cover while defusing, even as a physical bullet sponge.
Turtle = Blocking passage ways, making it easier to fight in certain unfavorable situations/locations, and/or putting up a barricade to crouch behind while defusing.

I’d rather have any of these in a situation where I am actively about to defuse, than Fletcher’s stickies which require time to use effectively, as opposed to preventing or delaying problems before they occur.[/quote]
Proxy’s Pizza Delivery takes more time than Fletcher’s grenades to arm offensively. Closer range and the fact that you need to shoot it make the strategy really niche and easily countered.

Bushwhacker’s turret acts more like a defensive tool in most of the situations you are talking about. When used as a bullet sponge, I feel that the effect is pretty bad considering that the M4A1 could destroy the thing in less than a second, and several characters could just kill both you and the turret.

Turtle, on the topic of “blocking passage ways” and the like, seems to be more of a defensive application. In regards to blocking off gunfire while defusing/arming C4, I think that application is just an extension of Turtle’s Objective Specialist passive. And, the wall probably has a set-up time, which means headshots by the enemy team.

Which also probably means that Turtle would have dropped dead by the time he could do much of anything.

So, back to my previous point…

(Equanimity) #26

This is all too hypothetical for me to want to bother with a detailed response. Suffice to say there are applications for and shortcomings of the more ‘defensively skilled’ obj specialists in regards to ‘re-taking’ an objective. This is what makes them balanced. Is Fletcher a step above them? Maybe, if played extremely well. Though his ability requires him to be active and thus is something that, unless using a ‘sticky mine’ or you have great reflexes and don’t get insta-gibbed off the objective, isn’t as useful during the ‘actual’ defuse of C4.

(JJMAJR) #27

Fletcher’s ability to attack more easily increases the chances of him getting the proper backup when he’s arming or defusing the C4. The only time this wouldn’t hold true is when the objective is really far out in the open like Underground’s last objective.

That’s when a sniper would be a lot more helpful than any Objective Specialist ability.