Brink TV Spawn Time Experiment - +10 D Respawn = Awesome

(Impulse_) #21

[QUOTE=GreasedScotsman;333748]We need teams to come out of the woodwork tonight to test this. I know blight is interested in scrimming at 8pm EDT. My hope is to get teams fairly even in skill as that will be the most ideal test.

I’d like to have 2 scrims streamed using the following rules:

+10 respawn for defense
No CP buffs
1 mine per engineer, 1 turret per team
No de-hacking.
No Adrenaline.

Once the patch hits, I’d like to test to see if Adrenaline stacks… if it does not, it may be worth looking at with its reduced duration. I’m also interested in seeing if teams can simply learn how to counter it (again, assuming it does NOT stack) through knockdowns and focus-firing on the support medic.[/QUOTE]

Locked on Target is down to scrim tonight. we may have 5 on at 8est

(Niz) #22

Make sure to join the Brink TV Test Group

(FireWorks) #23

What a couple guys already tried to tell you is that the spawn times are only shifted instead of actually increased.

Lets say the real timer lets you spawn all 20 seconds and you let the team pick nose for 5 seconds.
Original spawn after: 20,40,60,80,100… secs
Your tweaked spawn: 25,45,65,85,105… secs <-- The true difference is still 20 seconds! Nothing actually increased, just shifting the clash when one team will meet the other.

(BioSnark) #24

Nothing actually increased? Are you saying it makes no difference? The +10s means a defending player stays ‘gibbed’ and useless to their team a minimum of ten seconds in addition to the average reinforce spawn time.

As has been noted, it’s pretty obviously not perfect as a 20s max + 10s (w/ no revives, dwnfire, etc) is tougher than a 30s max.

(Mattc0m) #25

We’re live now!

www.thebrink.tv

(Apocalypse_Pony) #26

Yes Matt, it is definitely more entertaining to watch.

Participating last night and speccing tonight, it’s all actually FUN now!

Completing objectives and setting times. What a concept.

(Cankor) #27

[QUOTE=BioSnark;333656]I’m eager to see Splash Damage open stopwatch spawn changes or even just implement a blanket +10s defense spawn time in stopwatch. -5s offense, +5s d probably works, too, although might also mean more broken up offense pushes and less revive/gib emphasis.
[/QUOTE]

I know everyone is aware of this, but while it seems like the 10 second difference in spawn times works well, it may not always be the same for each map since you have to factor distance from spawn to objective into the equation. It could be that a 5 second difference is fine when both attack and defense spawns are more or less the same distance away, but in the cases where the defensive spawn is much closer you have to go to 10 seconds.

Also, SD should be working on Spawn Times after they tweak the other things which are broken first (de-hack times and so forth).

To your point, once we have maps that are more or less balanced 50/50 for pub play it, at that point maybe just adding 5 seconds to the defensive spawn whenever you have a stopwatch mode is all it takes (because they probably will have already added something to it to get the map win/loss ratio to 50/50).

So yeah, it would make sense that just changing the mode automatically changes the spawn timers (I actually suggested this before the game was released).

(GreasedScotsman) #28

VODs of scrims are up: http://thebrink.tv/videos.php?vID=16#vod16

(BioSnark) #29

Yes, Cankor, it would certainly be preferable if times were rebalanced per objective and per map but my point was that even the most basic blanket change would be wonders better than the current system that so clearly isn’t working. I think opening this to server cfg so it can be managed by competition organizations/leagues and players would be more timely and effective than having SD try to work it out, themselves. Hopefully that won’t wait till a possible SDK because I wonder if many comp teams will.

(wolfnemesis75) #30

I will check it out when I get the chance! I will be watching some E3 today. After that its all Brink, baby!

(Smokeskin) #31

I think this is great that you’re doing some experiments. I also really like your don’t ban everything policy.

Good work Brink TV :slight_smile:

(Kalbuth) #32

Looks like the experiment gave very, very good results.

Conclusion, apparently : in an ideal world, SD should give cvars to control spawn timers per side and per objective, at least in stopwatch mode.

(Got2ball) #33

I would love to help out to bad Brink Tv is only support Pc. I would love to enter some the tournaments you guys got going on but its only for Pc = (

(DonkeyDong) #34

[QUOTE=hly;333737]Prior to brink release I’ve read reviews and watched youtube videos of Paul Leehockey Wedgewood telling me how splash damage privately beta tested the game and made sure it was competitive ready. Why is it almost a month later and still there isn’t a patch to fix a basic things such as adjusting a spawn time?

More and more teams have uninstalled the game and we lost any good chance this game will ever have a good solid competitive community in NA. The only reason they are playing Brink in Europe is because of the 15,000euro tournament. (btw: NA teams are NOT allowed to participate). Most European teams find the game frustrating because of simple fixes that should have been implemented prior to release.

Why is the gaming community the ones that need to figure out the proper settings for spawn adjustments? Why wasn’t this brought up prior to release when the splash damage crew was testing the game?

Greaseman: Thanks for finding supporting data that 30 second defense spawn time is the way to go. I’ve brought this up 6 hours after playing the game on May 10th. What has been done over 25 days ago to fix this? NOTHING.[/QUOTE]

Why?

Because they didn’t even make competitive players forum, to then sticky competitive based interests like the ones you posted, and then continued to ignore the competitive communities questions…

The above points, could’ve been completely null and void if they even had a closed beta for competitive teams like they did in Quake Wars… but I guess competitive auntie dessy and competitive babysitter for our daughter (friends and family) was suffice for a skill capped beta…

/facepalm

ps, don’t confuse my rants with the love for the game. I’d rather play this then ANY CALL OF DUUDUU… but hey, if we didn’t complain then we’d have ourselves to blame.

(Mattc0m) #35

I’ve heard this complaint so many times. And yet the console community as yet to step up and make their own events or their own competitive community. Why would we create events for a community we’re not a part of? We only have the PC versions of the game, and we’re PC gaming fans.

If (and ONLY if) the console community has a competitive scene, we’d look into coverage.

But is there a competitive scene on the console? NOPE.

All I’m asking, dear PS3 and Xbox 360 fans, is that you make the community, you make the competition, you make the events. This is not our responsibility. If we did stream console footage of Brink, for instance, what on earth are we supposed to cover?

Absolutely nothing.

(say it again)

(Decayed) #36

For fun, you should also run a match with the same teams in vanilla spawn timers for some sort of control.
This will hopefully negate any large skill bias between teams as well as other external factors.
For instance, what if you ran vanilla and still get better gaming just cause the game’s been out longer? If team A stomps team B in vanilla timers, it’ll be nice to see how the new timings changes that.

Also, another way you could test this is to have a global timer and keep track of the actual waves.
So typically we see spawns at
0:20, 0:40, 1:00, 1:20
With the addition of +5 sec it’s 0:25, 0:45, 1:05, 1:25
(within a 90 second period, both teams still spawn 4 times)

It will take more coordination, but if people are willing to test it, you could have someone keep track and only allow def. spawns to move out at
0:25, 0:50, 1:15, 1:40
(within a 90 second period, defense only spawns 3 times)

If this is how SD does implement it (which I assume it will be) 5 seconds will have a larger impact since as time goes on, it will change the spawn rates considerablly.
If you look at the example numbers above, if you double it to a 180 second period, now you have both teams spawning 8/9 times. If it’s a hard 30s for defense it will be 9 spawns for offense, 6 spawns for defense. That’s a huge difference.

Hope that makes sense, but keep up the good work! This is a good idea, but just want to throw out some other opportunities for testing it.

(GreasedScotsman) #37

Yeah, I’ve got those results for you.

20:00 Time to beat. 20:00 Hold. Double Full Hold.

Rinse repeat. :slight_smile: I kid, I kid… sort of.

(Redshft) #38

[QUOTE=Decayed;334314]F
Also, another way you could test this is to have a global timer and keep track of the actual waves.
So typically we see spawns at
0:20, 0:40, 1:00, 1:20
With the addition of +5 sec it’s 0:25, 0:45, 1:05, 1:25
(within a 90 second period, both teams still spawn 4 times)

It will take more coordination, but if people are willing to test it, you could have someone keep track and only allow def. spawns to move out at
0:25, 0:50, 1:15, 1:40
(within a 90 second period, defense only spawns 3 times)
.[/QUOTE]

Please, when you are posting spawn times, post them in actual relatable numbers to Brink.

The first spawn time is always 19:30. So we would typically see spawns of 19:30, 19:10, 18:50, 18:30. Not what you put.

Adjusted defense spawns would be 19:25, 19:00 etc. Not “0:25, 0:45, 1:05” because that is still 20 seconds interval other than the first one.

The adjusted defense spawns would then be 19:25, 19:00, 18:35, 18:10, 17:45, etc.

(bjorn) #39

Too early to say, 30 sec spawntime for defense seems very appealing at the moment, but it is an overreaction to the huge amount of fullholds
30 secs worked in games like ET or ETQW because you had more open area to cover, multiple angles to fire on entrances and on objectives, more entrances to objectives for both offense and defense, bigger reward for crossfire and better positioning. As defence when you had one or two down on full you could negate that disadvantage by better positioning or giving up on some position and than later retaking it
In brink with its small corridors, chokepoints and single room objectives it is more about brute force and manpower advantage, if one of defence is down on full for 30 secs in brink that means two easy attacks for the offense, people tend to forget that the offense spawn is not very far away on most maps, it’s not just the defense spawn being close

15(offense)-20(defense) or 20(offense)-25(defense) seems worth a try if hacktime and escortspeed ever gets fixed (on maps like shipyard double fullholds will always happen if hacktime will not be fixed), keeping the high pace and constant stream of action

(Decayed) #40

[QUOTE=Redshft;334531]Please, when you are posting spawn times, post them in actual relatable numbers to Brink.

The first spawn time is always 19:30. So we would typically see spawns of 19:30, 19:10, 18:50, 18:30. Not what you put.

Adjusted defense spawns would be 19:25, 19:00 etc. Not “0:25, 0:45, 1:05” because that is still 20 seconds interval other than the first one.

The adjusted defense spawns would then be 19:25, 19:00, 18:35, 18:10, 17:45, etc.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I was just counting up for simplicity… The idea is the same. By the way, your second set of numbers is wrong. :confused:

Either way, you got the point, which I think is the important part, not which set of numbers or method of counting is used.