Brink Interviews Make Weekends Better

(tokamak) #21

I thought increasing the size of the control group was great. The argument these ‘pro’ users is not the quite the same. They were arguing from snobbery basically, they wanted their (hard) way the only way with no alternative. Right now they can still keep the size of the groups small if they want, it’s just that people can opt to do it differently if they want to.

In ETQW however, BOTH options are available, you can pre-equip or simply press ‘use’ near an intractable object. With the pre-equip offering a limitation on one hand and a slight advantage on the other, not a superior option, but one that rewarded the anticipating player. In Brink there’s only one option and it’s the simple one.

I like to see both, and I don’t see what disadvantage there is to having both, so far I only see a drawback not being outweighed by anything.

(H0RSE) #22

In ETQW however, BOTH options are available, you can pre-equip or simply press ‘use’ near an intractable object. With the pre-equip offering a limitation on one hand and a slight advantage on the other, not a superior option, but one that rewarded the anticipating player. In Brink there’s only one option and it’s the simple one.

But what advantage does pre-selecting your tools opposed to the one button approach, give you? I can’t think of any. I think you are taking a mechanic that may have been deemed advantageous in other games, but the way Brink seems to operate, there simply is no benefit to pre-selecting tools, other than personal preference.

(Voxie) #23

Yes, I see your point. I don’t, however, think that the classic input method is ideal with the changes Brink will bring to the ET formula. Specifically I’m talking about changes in the hand-out of packs and other buffs as well as the arming method of mines and HE charges. The choice of a preemptive action to the aforementioned feats seems superfluous, especially when you consider that the weaponbanks have been redesigned in favor of a more contemporary system. Giving the choice of pre-equipping tools puts those who doesn’t at a sizable disadvantage (at least according to my own experience playing W:ET and ETQW).

In short, it’s a balancing act and we’re on opposite ends of the spectrum. I’m not saying that your opinion is objectively wrong nor that mine is objectively right and I’m not looking for a heated argument, just friendly discussion.

(tokamak) #24

[QUOTE=Voxie;246369] Giving the choice of pre-equipping tools puts those who doesn’t at a sizable disadvantage (at least according to my own experience playing W:ET and ETQW).
[/QUOTE]

And still it’s optional, it would be exactly the same as chosing between SMART autopilot and doing everything yourself which should give you an advantage IF you meet the skill required to do it better than the automatic option.

(Zanchile) #25

but you dont need to use smart. if a person plays heavy it wont make much of a difference if he uses smart or does it manually. On the other hand everyone has objectives and, as H0RSE said, it would provide an unfair disadvantage to those who use the “use” button. you being better at the weapon banks doesnt mean your a better player than the person who uses “use”. (not saying you implied it, just for arguments sake) its just more comfortable to you. and even if it did use more skill this isn’t as hardcore game as other games SD has put forth.

(tokamak) #26

I think it’s fair to say that SMART will be as commonly used as objective abilities. In both cases they offer different kind of advantages. The autopilot doesn’t drain your mental resources from the game, and the manual approach allows you to time stuff better.

it would provide an unfair disadvantage to those who use the “use” button. you being better at the weapon banks doesnt mean your a better player than the person who uses “use”.

Yes, it definitely does make you a better player than players who use the auto-function. For one you’re forfeiting control of your weapons because you’re defenceless while you walk around with your objective tools in your hand. It means that you need to be able to judge the situation better in order to decide whether this set-back is worth the advantage. This is about situational awareness, not comfort.

The hardcore crowds tends to be all for simplifying the mechanics as well. I chose to go for the stock phrase ‘dumbing down for consoles’ here. It’s pandering to the limited amount of buttons on a controller, totally unnecessary for the keyboard.

(Icemonkeyjr) #27

Great interviews, cant wait for brink and cant wait to play it with all you guys!

(H0RSE) #28

Yes, it definitely does make you a better player than players who use the auto-function. For one you’re forfeiting control of your weapons because you’re defenceless while you walk around with your objective tools in your hand. It means that you need to be able to judge the situation better in order to decide whether this set-back is worth the advantage. This is about situational awareness, not comfort.

Opting for a mechanic that leaves you defenseless, isn’t being “hardcore” or making you any better for choosing it - it’s simply you choosing the difficult way to do something - it offers a disadvantage (being defenseless) and no advantage. It’s like choosing to walk across the busy highway blindfolded, when you could easily use the safe sidewalk that leads to the same destination - what’s the point? The way you propose, has no advantage and the only thing that makes you a “better player” for using it, is a personal sense of accomplishment.

(tokamak) #29

I was arguing against a different point than you hold.

(Cankor) #30

The reason it is advantageous to pull your tools out beforehand in ETQW is because you have to be right up on the objective and pointing at it the right way to use the use key. Only then does your tool come out, and you’ve just lost 1/2 a second at least. As I understand it in Bink you can press the use key while you are far enough away that your tool coems out before you get there, so there is no time waisted. So from that respect it’s close to the same thing: preselecting your tool = using the use button from a few feet away, the difference being you have to be pointed at the objective (this may be a subtle difference, but I suspect it’s not insignificant).

SD has also said it’s easy to quit out of the tool selection, just stop pressing use and your weapon pops back up, so from that respect it’s probably easier (don’t have to press a key, you just stop pressing the key you are already pressing) and quicker to start defending yourself.

My only real worry here is that trhe context doesn’t get misinterpreted, i.e. throwing ammo to a guy right next to the objective instead of running up and planting on it (or buffing the guys gun instead of disarming), things like that.

To me, equiping tools isn’t nearly the big deal that equiping nades is, and since it looks like you can script that at least there’s a choice there, even if it’s a kluge.

On a side note, we have seen that it doesn’t seem possible to finish someone else’s charge and this makes me wonder about disarming a charge: can someone else continue your progress if you die, can two people disarm twice as fast, etc (and similar questions for other types of objectives).

(Humate) #31

As I understand it in Brink you can press the use key while you are far enough away that your tool coems out before you get there, so there is no time waisted

How does that work with charges in Brink?
The charging happens before its placed on the objective.

Unless you’re talking specifically about repair objectives :confused:

(H0RSE) #32

[QUOTE=Humate;246402]How does that work with charges in Brink?
The charging happens before its placed on the objective.

Unless you’re talking specifically about repair objectives :confused:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rahdo;215411]which leads to specifics about our unified use key. here’s what you guys have to understand: brink is not like the previous ETs in that it took awhile for the item to be equipped, during which time you were helpless. In Brink, everything is pretty much instant, and what’s more, there’s a fundamental shift in how you select stuff in the world. in other games, your proximity to an interactive item determines what you’ll use. in Brink, it’s not your proximity, it’s your facing. what this means is that even if you’re 20’ away from something in game, if you’re aiming at it, and you see the ‘interact’ icon on it, you can start interacting with it from all the way back there. what this will then do is magnetically pull you toward the object at maximum speed (in some cases, like a moving teammate, faster than normal speed) and by the time you reach the thing in question, your item is already equipped and doing it’s job.

So in effect, we’ve automated pre-selecting. in the ETs, when you’re 20’ away, you’d hit ‘5’ to equip your ‘blowtorch’ (just making up examples) while still running forward (if your fingers are long enough), and when you got 3’ away, you’d start holding LMB to do the welding.

In brink, when you’re 20’ away, you’ll just start holding ‘F’ (or whatever you map interact to), during which time you can continue to run toward the thing (and even if you don’t, you’ll still be moving at maximum speed, and even faster than maximum speed, towards it because the game will autorun you), and by the time you get 3’ away, your blowtorch is already out (automatically) and you’re already welding.

in ET, once you’d hit ‘5’, for that entire 20’, you had no gun. in brink, once you start holding ‘F’ are are zipping towards the target, you’ve still got your gun and you can still shoot.

so overall, with the brink system, i’d say you’re sacrificing nothing (you’re just as fast an efficient as the old style), but gaining a lot (you don’t have to move your fingers away from movement keys, you don’t give up your gun, you haven’t tied up a lot of extra keys on the keyboard)[/QUOTE]

(light_sh4v0r) #33

So you have to hold the use-key all the time? You can’t just tap it once to get the tool out and then use it with mb1?

(tokamak) #34

If that’s the case then I have no problems with it at all. I’m not concerned about the controls, I merely want to be able to pre-select my tools. Whether that is through a context-sensitive button or a weapon bank makes no difference to me. Obviously the context-sensitive is preferable for making the mechanics more accessible to everyone.

I was only worried about (yet another) layer of depth being removed by it. I want players that prepare themselves for their actions to have an advantage over those that do things on a whim.

(Senethro) #35

[QUOTE=tokamak;246406]If that’s the case then I have no problems with it at all. I’m not concerned about the controls, I merely want to be able to pre-select my tools. Whether that is through a context-sensitive button or a weapon bank makes no difference to me. Obviously the context-sensitive is preferable for making the mechanics more accessible to everyone.

I was only worried about (yet another) layer of depth being removed by it. I want players that prepare themselves for their actions to have an advantage over those that do things on a whim.[/QUOTE]

So pick a perk that allows faster objective completion?

Rahdo has already said that the weaponswitch animation is minimal so theres no point to the feature you’re asking for.

(tokamak) #36

Wouldn’t that depend on what weapon you carry as well?

[QUOTE=Senethro;246417]So pick a perk that allows faster objective completion?
[/QUOTE]

That’s totally not the point, I want players who sacrifice their defense in order prepare for an objective to be rewarded, it worked a charm in ETQW.

(deems) #37

I pretty much agree 100% with tokamak’s points. Making decisions like “Should I keep my gun out or should I get out my wrench early” add to the strategy/tactics of the game. Each tactic has its time and place and it would be a shame if this and things like it were removed from the PC version to fit on console controllers. As mentioned, if the use button allows you to get the tool out early with no context-misinterpretation, then no problem…but if the decision has been removed, then IMHO that’s too bad. Maybe not such a huge deal in this case, but as a trend – its a bad way to go!

SD has made good design choices in the past, I trust them to make good ones with this. I hope I’m right to do so!

Deems

(Senethro) #38

Would it? What level of knowledge are you speaking from?

That’s totally not the point, I want players who sacrifice their defense in order prepare for an objective to be rewarded, it worked a charm in ETQW.

Taking a non-combat perk is lowering your defense!

So you want objective lemmings in pubs to be less useless? Do you really think its a good use of resources to reimplement tools in weaponslots? Is this really the feature you want to go to the wall for?

(Voxie) #39

I’m also a little concerned about the context-sensitivity of the use button as well, especially for us PC users with lots of keys to spare.

I propose the inclusion of optional distinctive bindings that only triggers on specific actions for the PC version. You’d be able to bind a key to “+use objectives”, “+use givebuff”, “+use revive”, et cetera as well as the ability to combine arguments ("+use objectives revive" for example).
This would probably require minimal coding and gives power-users a greater amount of control and customization of their actions while not affecting players content with the standard use key. Thoughts?

(tokamak) #40

How about you start reading the parts you quote yourself?