5v5 pubs and ranked problems

(bgyoshi) #21

[quote=“zavabia;c-218766”]
[spoiler]So you enjoy casual? Why are you commenting on how large teams should be in ranked, if you prefer to play casual? If you dont want to play ranked, which is 5v5 and what it always has been and what Daga refers to in the video, then why does it matter if its not 6v6? You play your pubs, we’ll play our ranked.

Also, terminal is god damn tiny. It barely holds 5 players. Chapel, for example, is a map that actually allows breathing room and time for thought. Most of the maps are perfectly fine for 5 players, if anything Dome is the worst map because of its sheer size (this is your 6v6 map if thats what you’re interested in). The maps are not at all intended for larger games, in fact 8v8 is appalling in most scenarios because there is so much random @$!# happening.

And by saying no one would play the game in 5v5, well excuse me for saying this but what the @$!# is wrong with you? Have you not seen the competitive side of dirty bomb e/g DBN? There are people who ONLY play the 5v5 pugs because pubs are boring, stupid and full of idiots. CSGO is also a game primarily built for 5v5, and it is one of the most popular games in the world. League of Legends and DotA (very different games, but still relevant for this example) are both 5v5 and extremely popular. As far as I’m aware, ET was also 5v5, and was incredibly fun and strategic.

I understand that you prefer casual to competitive, but for those people who want to get into ranked and accomplish something in a game, which quite a lot of people do, they should be given the chance to play a ranked scenario to practice or get the feel of it. Most MOBAs do this, and it works fine.

TL;DR
5v5 will work perfectly fine in dirty bomb.
The map sizes are fit for the 5v5 purpose.
Casual play is fine, but should not be forced upon players. they should be given the opportunity to play a tougher format without playing through a third party.[/spoiler][/quote]

I’m not commenting about how large teams should be in ranked, I’m commenting about WHY large teams are in pubs, and small teams are not.

OF COURSE there’s going to be a competitive community, and it will represent a vast minority of players just like DotA, just like LoL, just like CS:GO, just like every single game in existence. There is no game, video game or sport, where the majority of all of its players are playing competitive matches only. All games have a competitive nature in the sense of win vs. lose, but most people play games to have fun, and only some people play games to compete professionally.

But SD is not going to make money on the tiny amount of competitive/ranked players, compared to the huge amount of pub players. SD advertises 5v5 game play, advertises ranked matches, and advertises for eSports. But look at the last… I don’t know, over a year of patches? Aside from the bug fixing:

For pubs

  • Damage balance
  • HP balances
  • Game size changes (pushing only 7v7/8v8)
  • Casual matchmaking
  • Map balance changes
  • Complete lack of intent for 5v5 pub servers (since day 1)

For competitive

  • Improved ranked matchmaking
  • Improved ranked player balance

A developer’s intent is not a developer’s actions. Yes, SD wants the game to be 5v5, but their largest player base and their largest income is pubs, and they’ve made the majority of their changes based on feedback from pubs with only minor changes intended for competitive only.

(Dagasawr) #22

[quote=“Szakalot;c-218775”]i played 3v3s on trainyard that were super intense and back and forth.

imo some people think maps are too big for 5v5
cause nobody navigates the map fast
enough, lol.

or they just prefer a free fire zone where spam gets the majority of kills.[/quote]

I’ve been doing some 3v3 pugs recently and i found them to be super intense like you say :slight_smile:

(Szakalot) #23

[quote=“Daga;c-218785”][quote=“Szakalot;c-218775”]i played 3v3s on trainyard that were super intense and back and forth.

imo some people think maps are too big for 5v5
cause nobody navigates the map fast
enough, lol.

or they just prefer a free fire zone where spam gets the majority of kills.[/quote]

I’ve been doing some 3v3 pugs recently and i found them to be super intense like you say :)[/quote]

yup, plants are easy to land (with a teamwipe) , but just as easily retaken, as usually 1-2 people always try to fight against the fullspawnwave, with the reinforcements only ever joining in the middle of the fight. 1-2 players on one team survive: rinse-repeat

(Chris Mullins) #24

It’s much less noticeable and easier to manage if a player drops out in a 6v6 than a 5v5. In Ranked, players are much less likely to drop making this not so much of an issue, but for casual play the odds are higher, especially in non-min level servers. We are going to be adding back-filling to CMM (the ability to fill slots left by players who leave), but we would still want teams to be as balanced as possible until a new player is ready to join.

(n-x) #25

@stayfreshshoe thx a lot for the response. But is there a chance to add some 5vs5 ff on casual servers? or make the min 20 servers into 5vs5 ff on. I mean, doesnt it bother you guys, that players have no chance to prepare for ranked. I mean basically 5vs5 is the format of Dirty Bomb, but you give us no chance to play it.

There is so much you cant practice on 6vs6 / 7vs7 / 8vs8 servers that is fundamental for ranked. I have and play with players with several hundred hours in-game and still, when we play ranked we hardly can draw from our experience we gathered in casual.

(anicca444) #26

@Kelben got to agree… I have made a thread trying to concisely compile my suggestion here:

http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/34000/friendly-fire-on-and-or-5vs5-option-in-public-casual-request#latest

and reserved the second post so that I can provide links to others’ views on similar or the same topic, which I will edit later to include posts/threads such as this one…

@stayfreshshoe whilst I see your point with drop-outs, in my thread I suggest that since the CMM uses player CMM ratings… it could take the average CMM of the server, and for higher rating games automatically assign a FF-on server… perhaps this could also apply to the 5vs5/6vs6 question too, if people are playing a lot and attaining a higher rating, there is (maybe, this is something you could judge better) again less likelihood of them leaving mid-game.

Failing that, making min 10/20 servers (or some of them) ff-on and/or 5vs5 would be a good option too… though I would rather see both happen in some form.

Ranked is opened up to level 7s, it makes no sense to me that this is the case when there is literally no option to experience anything close to ranked publicly. Private matches/pugs are different.

Anyway… please check out my thread <3 much love xx

< anicca444 >

(powi_) #27

Okay so CMM’s main purpose is to just freely play the game and have fun. If u want u can just disconnect, try out mercs that u dont usually play etc. etc. while the game should be still balanced.

For this purpose i think 6v6, 7v7 servers are perfect, cause there are a lot more action going on. Not saying 5on5 or even 3on3 is boring, i’ve played 7 years Enemy Territory, most of them were 3on3 wars and i loved it, but for public play 5v5 is kinda boring.

CMM should be stopwatch, especially if u plan to fill up empty slots (if someones dropping out). However if u check overwatch, they have quick play also that is “objective” and comp that is “stopwatch” so… objective can work also i guess.

And you should do more tests, maybe expand it to days (not some hours), cause i just missed this test also :confused:

(averagerussian) #28

it’s funny how the majority of the people who come on forums to complain about Dirty Bomb not being made for competitive play have never stepped in DBN to try it out. They’re probably the people who only tried Ranked and i see where they come from. I’d play casual public with clueless players rather than Ranked with clueless players anyday.
it reminds me of the people who hate execution but they have never even given the mode (and the maps) enough time to see they can be enjoyable too

(Szakalot) #29

[quote=“JUKING;c-218889”]it’s funny how the majority of the people who come on forums to complain about Dirty Bomb not being made for competitive play have never stepped in DBN to try it out. They’re probably the people who only tried Ranked and i see where they come from. I’d play casual public with clueless players rather than Ranked with clueless players anyday.
it reminds me of the people who hate execution but they have never even given the mode (and the maps) enough time to see they can be enjoyable too[/quote]

to be fair, there is a lot more effort required to finding a pug in DBN, and typically 15min wait time for a 15min game. Unless you’re in for a streak of course.

Additionally, the DBN tend to have mid-high level play, which is nowhere near what many casual ranked players would be looking for.

(Xenithos) #30

[quote=“JUKING;c-218889”]it’s funny how the majority of the people who come on forums to complain about Dirty Bomb not being made for competitive play have never stepped in DBN to try it out.

it reminds me of the people who hate execution but they have never even given the mode (and the maps) enough time to see they can be enjoyable too[/quote]

I’m of the group that has done all of the above. I just don’t usually enjoy my experiences in DBN too much. There’s too much wait-time for me to get into a match, just to medic people as they get slaughtered if there’s any miscommunication before game or teams are uneven. If they aren’t uneven, it’s usually a blast though.

I’ve played far too much execution, and I enjoy parts of it. But I would never put execution as a main gamemode in Dirty Bomb. It’s not what the game was originally designed for, though the 2 minute limit does make things interesting from time to time (Especially movement and routes…) I “hate” execution mainly because of waiting and because public matching in Execution is retarded sometimes. How can you be 11, playing in a gamemode that emphasizes speed AND doing the objective, and still get lost in a map this small? No, pfft, screw it. I’ll go play Terminal or Chapel or Trainyard. At least I can do those maps by myself or have fun failing the whole time without sitting there for another 40 seconds staring at some noob doing stupid stuff.

But again, I am one who has an opinion based on what I’ve played. For those that don’t, you’re exactly right.

(doxjq) #31

[quote=“JUKING;c-218889”]it’s funny how the majority of the people who come on forums to complain about Dirty Bomb not being made for competitive play have never stepped in DBN to try it out. They’re probably the people who only tried Ranked and i see where they come from. I’d play casual public with clueless players rather than Ranked with clueless players anyday.
it reminds me of the people who hate execution but they have never even given the mode (and the maps) enough time to see they can be enjoyable too[/quote]

In all fairness most people don’t know about DBN, and who can blame them? Newer players to the game especially. There’s nothing around explaining it other than some random locked servers.

Personally I think SD should add a pop up when you launch the game, or perhaps something in the drop down menu in game that mentions DBNation (perhaps next to private matches?), which could link people to their discord with a brief description of what they offer.