10 lessons I learned in my first 45 days of mapping

(The5thHorsemen) #21

2 easy lesson’s I learned in my past 10 months of Level editing with Gtk.

NUMBER 1 (clique but true)
read the manuals…
there’s more than one.

NUMBER 2
when stuck hit F1 or the Help TAB button…
they are your friend.

:drink:

(G0-Gerbil) #22

Surely it’s up to Ifurita if he takes offence or not?
Bear in mind BXpress had valid points (whether you think he follows them himself or not) and stated in his post he did not mean them badly.
Always give the benefit of the doubt to someone who replies in a tongue other than their native one. Peace man :clap:

Anyway, the thing I like about Ifurita’s post is that what he gives are ‘rules’, IE things you can actually learn, to make your mapping quicker and more efficient.

This is entirely seperate to BXpress’ point about having creativity etc. which you either have or you don’t, and can only learn by a long drawn out process of failures.

I think the difference is that one set of points is ‘real’ (do this , do that, you will do better) and the other is purely ‘theoretical’ (make good gameplay! Has anyone here seen a definitive list of rules on how to do that?).

All good points, but for a newbie mapper, I’d concentrate on getting them up to speed on the tools - their own natural ability of level design will come through this, but if they can’t create the maps, then they are stuck at the beginning, which is always a sad state of affairs.

(Ifurita) #23

Unfortuantely, there is a middle ground that is a mix of technical tool use/understanding and design. The best example I can think of pertains to city maps and making a map feel open yet has very tastefully blended vis-blocking terrain/city blocks that don’t feel out of place and which channels gameflow nicely. No one really makes tutorials that help a newbie through that design process. As a result, you end up with something like my first map, which was wide open and had the expected problems.

That example is a mix of technical understanding how vis/hints/detail v structural works, with game experience and a eye for natural architectural flow.

(G0-Gerbil) #24

Ah but I defy anyone to produce a great map as their first effort.
It’s a learning curve in every aspect, but put simply - the more you do the better you become.

Since the ‘slow-down’ to start with is using the tools (if you are short of ideas, you wouldn’t have picked up the mapping tools in the first place), I’d focus on learning them.

My general idea on creating stuff is ‘learn the tools first’ because that’s a quantifiable area - what you do with the tools will always be up to you, but you aren’t going to achieve shit no matter how good your ideas are if you can’t use the tools.

In other words, I’d want it so that ideas are your limiting factor, not your practical knowledge.

(Ifurita) #25

I’m mostly in agreement with your points. I just think that a lot of people’s learning curve could be seriously flattened if the process by which they read thru tutorials and tried things out was rearranged. For example, most newbies (e.g., me) start out with:

  1. Make a box room
  2. Make a second box room
  3. Connect them
  4. Create a revolving door
  5. Create breakable glass
  6. Create a func_explosive
  7. …

If I was sitting down with someone and walking them thru this, I’d almost propose:

  1. Make a box room
  2. Add some prefabs and lights
  3. Read the vis tutorial by nibs and play around with the portal viewer
  4. Make a second box room
  5. Connect them
  6. Create a revolving door
  7. Create breakable glass
  8. Create a func_explosive
  9. Write the script that will allow team x to spawn and win
  10. …

I haven’t added much in terms of time, but by the end, I have a workable ‘map’ that I can launch, play, and win

(G0-Gerbil) #26

I agree scripting is vastly under-rated in it’s necessaity, and apparently over-rated in it’s difficulty too (probably because they open up goldrush script and see all the tank stuff!).

VIS-ing, still not convinced it’s something a n00b mapper should be overly concerned about, same with structural / detail - it’s simply information overload.

I’d wait for these more advanced things until they are a bit further along the mapping route - IE once they embark on their first map ‘proper’, not just playing with the editor.

Of course, if you were to sit down and teach someone, they’d pick up a lot of stuff very quickly so it’d be a different kettle of fish :slight_smile:

(Ifurita) #27

yes, if you’re just playing with the editor, then there are tons of things you don’t need to know. I was assuming someone was seriously thinking about making a map or starting a project

As far as vis/detail/structural there are some parts that are pretty complex, but the basics I think, are not. Nib’s tutorial is written pretty clearly and at the right level. I believe that even a basic understanding of why detail brushes are important would significantly affect how a new mapper would start building and populating rooms

(G0-Gerbil) #28

Luckily structural / detail is something yoiu can go back and easily fix, unlike a rubbish map layout.

Plus, most of us like to learn the hardway - someone simply going ‘do that it’s quicker’ never seems to command the same attention as having a 2 hour compile reduced to 5 minutes :smiley:

VISing is tricky, that’s why I think it’s not something that should be pushed at a total n00b, and as for hinting - well, it’s my opinion that hinting should be a well-kept secret, otherwise people start thinking there’s a magical solution to low framerates, when in fact it’ll usually only help a map designed with it in mind.

Anyway, if the n00b mapper picks up even half your tips, he’ll save himself a lot of time and pain in the long run, which is the point of your comments really, so it’s all good :slight_smile:

(Ifurita) #29

:slight_smile:

(BXpress) #30

hm. if i remember, there was something what i hav learned. something what not has been said here already!
Maps that are based on real locations, which have an historical background are the ones that are, or going to be, the most popular ones. But you have to be careful to not just make too much advertisement… like I did with Remagen…

(G0-Gerbil) #31

Have to disagree with you completely on that point BXpress :confused:
Authenticity is a nice addition to a map, but a better designed one with better gameplay will win over an authentic map anyday.

The best thing about authenticity is it simply gives mappers something to base their ideas on, with references etc. Most players won’t care, and will chose your map simply on how it plays.

Some people who know the actual location might get a buzz out of wandering around an area they know, but if it’s crap they’ll still not play it :confused:

I wonder how many people knew that marketgarden was based on an actual location / operation?

(BXpress) #32

hm, yea you are right…
lets say it so:
Maps are Maps.