K121 balance

(HadronZodiac) #1

The k121, although good mathmatically, in practice is a huge flop

Now ive used it for some time, so i do have a bit of an objective thought process (imo reee) so here we gooo

The main thing i have the k121 is how “extra” it is, an automated 17 damage LMG is a bit unneccesary, especially when it comes to practice

You typically land 1-2 shots before the spread just goes “F U”, and its pretty annoying, so i suggest

DAMAGE - 16 (32 for head)
RPM - 507
-10% horizontal recoil
-5% vertical recoil

This makes it less like an automated moa (while non scoped XD) and more like a consistant LMG, with a bit less spread so u can consistantly land shots instead of hitting 2 and then hitting the moon instead of ur target

K121 needs HELP
(HELGA_bunga) #2

even 16 is too much dmg tbh shouldnt be more than 15 or 16 but without touching the rof

(HadronZodiac) #3

but thats basically a nerf, its not that the k121 is OP or anything, just that the damage per bullet makes the randomness of the k121 go through the roof

(SM83 Power Operative ) #4

I think it needs a larger drum/box magazine before anything else. Feel its lack of capacity and long reload is the main reason why I have a hard time with it. Spread is rough, but became manageable over time.

(HELGA_bunga) #5

it needs a nerf


Imo it really needs reduced spread, or at least a longer firing time before its spread shows up. For a game where most weapons have minimal spread, it feels like the k121 has way more than it should. Being a slower weapon doesn’t help that either, since spread is much more noticeable on slower weapons.
I like having a slow firing, higher damage LMG, but I wouldn’t mind trading some of that damage just to give it more consistent spread with the other weapons in the game. It’s not horrible or anything, but as it is, it just feels gross when you could be using the M4.

Also I don’t think it would hurt to reduce the reload time from 3.5 to 3. Even the reloading animation feels like it’s slower than it should be on him lol

(Begin2018) #7

@HadronZodiac : You should learn to play all the things you want to buff. Good players play already very well Fragger, Thunder, K121 and everything. Definitively no buff need here.

(Muddy Muddy Mud Nade) #8

I’ve always felt like the K121 is a balancing factor for Fragger in itself. It hits like a truck, but it’s recoil, RoF and spread are the things that balance it, and the mag size is misleadingly small. Not so small that the mag size itself isn’t an advantage, but it isn’t as big as it might feel like. It always comes down to being able to land headshots with it, since it’s rate of fire is pathetic. I personally don’t think it needs to be touched, but then again I don’t main Fragger, so take it with a grain of salt.

(HadronZodiac) #9

mmm yess playing fragger since 2016 = i dont play him

makes sense

Also it isnt really a buff, as the increased fire rate is balanced by the lower damage and larger mag size, soooo

(Begin2018) #10

Then re-read what I said, because that isn’t what I said at all.

(HadronZodiac) #11

I did, and i dont need to change my response

Of course good players do good, give a knife to an assassin and theyll do more than a coward with a revolver.

The entire point of balance is it is neutral on a neutral player, good on a good player, bad on a bad player.

But some mercs throw that off, neutral on a good player, TERRIBLE on a bad player, or AMAZING on a good player, etc

(Xenithos) #12

I want to chime in here on the fact that I play Fragger a fair bit, and think your proposed changes would definitely change the gun to not used. It’s barely used already, and despite the fact that in all other scenarios the m14 is better, I prefer the chog chog of the k121.

IF it would be changed it only needs two smaller adjustments:
Faster spread reset time (as in people that decide to more burst with it CAN actually burst with it) by about 20-25%. (this means that they suffer a slight dps decrease in favor for accuracy, which is favorable and should make the gun feel MUCH better overall)
and shave .5-1 second off the reload, because dang yo. That reload is painful. I’ve gone Deagles only with Fragger in a group of enemies because reloading that gun would have taken too long.

DONT mess with the damage, as that’s part of what makes that gun feel better depsite it’s other flaws, don’t mess with it’s spread as prolonged firing with it and hitting all shots would mean 150dps (highest in game) and DONT mess with it’s ammo capacity as it’s honestly in the right place. Changing that wouldn’t really fix it’s real flaws.

K121 needs HELP
(Mr.Cuddlesworth) #13

All I want is reduced recoil for it.

(PariahDog) #14

Problem with LMGs in lot of these modern shooters is people go “OMG Its a AR with a bigger mag, IMBA” and they end up with a slew of downsides that don’t make up for a bigger magazine. They generally kick harder making them unreliable past 4-5 shots, extra slowdown because its a heavier weapon and a reload time that takes forever. And this is in shooters where they have mag sizes in the triple digits over the typical 30 round ARs.

I do want to mess with the ammo capacity in that you can carry a 3rd mag without spares just like the other weapons.

(HadronZodiac) #15

I do agree that would help with it

0.5 seconds honestly would be good enough

The main thing with the decreased damage, is so spread is less noticable. With the k121, one missed shot and you basically do 0 damage because the spread is already to unbearable.

And 1 damage isnt even much of a difference in the first place, you just cant 3 headshot a phoenix (but with increased rpm you should be fine)

(Xenithos) #16

I think not being able to carry an additional magazine for the only two LMGs in this game is actually an interesting design perk that I support. It means you can’t play an assault class like this without more support from your team, and really fleshes out the need for an ammo support in 5 mans. I personally wish that More Assault mercs would be made that were LMG related.
I do have to agree that most games over balance the LMGs though into oblivion. [quote=“HadronZodiac, post:15, topic:233214, full:true”]

I do agree that would help with it

See that’s where we disagree, I LIKE the feel of the K121 and that it’s this Behemoth that choogs out super painful lead, but if you can’t wield the gun correctly you absolutely pay the price for even trying.

I like the slower RoF it has and I even don’t mind the spread or the upwards recoil (which is quite high btw) but I do believe the fact that it’s not really able to be bursted whatsoever and that it’s spread STAYS so high makes it more of a useless gun compared to his option to use the M14.

Personally, if you were to improve it’s rate of fire I don’t feel like it would be the same gun, and it would just another timik clone or thereof.