Just an idea or two on fragger


(javelin_main) #1

So the most obviously the bugs to do with explosives need to be fixed and this needs to be the number one priority. These bugs really annoy me as someone who plays fletcher, Javelin and Fragger a lot. (I just want you guys to note that Proxy has no such bugs with people blocking damage and just not taking damage at all maybe these bugs are intentional. Just an jdea).

Next up, I think that fragger is still very effective with his grenades but he doesn’t feel very tanky at all anymore so I think that needs to be adressed. with the following changes, I hope to set fragger at least on the right track.

  1. Increased health to 140 (was 130)
  2. Reduced grenade max damage to 150 (was 170)
  3. Reduced aoe to 4m (was 4.16) (this brings it in line with Javelin’s rocket (at least I think it does but lower the aoe to match Javelin’s aoe as there is no reason for it to have a bigger aoe than a rocket))

(henki000) #2

I disagree with all your changes. Game will be slightly more linear, when you add tanky and immortal mercs. DB should not become some rainbows and panda cubs filled paladins garbage, this is Dirty Bomb, related to Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. People die instantly to explosives, it will sustain positional and tactical movement. You can already in public matches just run mindlessly and get surrounded team of enemies alone. Then just retreat, re-fill your health bar, perhaps kill someone in your route and do it again. There is not much what new players can do about it in public matches, and it bores me. Reason why I have take break and play something else for a while. Only way to truly enjoy this game, is when you encounter matching challenge. Fighting in your own category and battling equivalent opponents; it is constant problem with every high skill ceiling games.

But if there is something to do with balancing fragger, it’s better BR-16, K-121 in comparison to M4.


(javelin_main) #3

Uhm. Increasing fragger’s health to 140 wont make the ttk 3 s (avg ttk in paladins which you referenced) more like 1s on chest shots and 0.5s on headshot bring extended to 1.05 and 0.65 respectively. Fragger had 150hp before and he was quite quick to take down and the reduced nade damage is so thunder can survive which gives people a reason to drop fragger a bit more in high level play so that he doesn’t have a 99% pick rate if he isn’t banned by noobs in face it (10 health isn’t that much and reduced nade damage will liturally just mean you have to be more accurate with your nades). It’s more rewarding to play fragger if your skilled after these changes and lowwers dependance on the grenade. Making fragger more skill based is a good thing and making him fit the same role but in a different way (so he has to aim more but is rewarded greatly for doing so)


(STARRYSOCK) #4
  1. I wouldn’t mind bumping him back to 140 HP. I get some people prefer low TTK but eh, DB is better suited for high TTK imo. If you like low TTK, DB isn’t the best choice of a game for it. 130 just seems too low for fragger as he is now.

  2. Considering you can cook fragger’s grenade, I wouldn’t mind a slight damage reduction on it. Being able to pop out of a corner with a 170 damage ball of unavoidability is a bit of a meme compared to other mercs with explosives. Although if you did drop the damage, might also want to drop the cooldown

  3. Who cares if a grenade has a bigger AoE than a rocket tbh, this is a game, not everything has to be realistic. Balance should be your primary concern, and balance wise a fairly large AoE for Fragger’s grenade is fine. Makes sense from a gameplay perspective that something with greater accuracy should have a smaller AoE, hence the rocket.

I’d also like to see the spread reduced on his LMG too, since it’s really quite excessive for a slow firing weapon. That way you can encourage people to pick him for more reasons than just the grenade. BR could use a slight buff too but considering it’s very good on arty and kira, I’d rather see it replaced by something like the Shar-C


(Meerkats) #5

Fragger really needs 140 HP back. K-121 and SHAR-C need some improvements.

All explosives had cooldowns increased ( a good change ), so I think frags are in a good place comparatively.

What I do want to point out with my reply is that prox mines somehow have escaped attention, but should have cooldown increased as is only fair.


(STARRYSOCK) #6

Eh, the only think proximity mines are good at is throwing them down and instantly blowing them up, otherwise any decent player can easily spot a mine used as a trap.

Considering how hated instantly shooting your own mine is, probably better to nerf that with some kind of delay rather than increase cooldown in general, since besides that one feature, both her mines and proxy in general aren’t very good compared to other mercs


(javelin_main) #7

Yeah pizza delivery is dumb. It has a 0.5s delay between pressing q and the mine blowing up as well as having an aoe about 30% bigger than a grenade or rocket. Plus the lack of an audio cue other than a small chance for her to say landmine planted or something like that is kinda dumb. Plus there is the very short 20s cooldown and the fact she can store 2 and they can also work as mines to slow down clever players or kill one without game sense (or maybe experianced players with music playing). Yes she does have very low health but I think she’s more survivable when you consider her speed and almost lack of a hitbox.


(javelin_main) #8

My name may lead you to rule out these changes instantly but at least give them a look.

Javelin

  1. Increased the distance for which rockets hold their max of 200 damage to 1.5m (was 0.5m)
  2. Increased aoe at which the rocket reaches 0 damage to 4.5m (was 4.1m)
  3. make her take 20-30% more damage while charging a rocket

I want her to be better against groups but make it easier to kill her if she just uses it in a panic 1v1 situation


(javelin_main) #9

I think javelin and fragger are the main ones I can comment on as those are my two mains that I use the most (I do like phoenix and fletcher but not as much as fragger and javelin). I only commented on proxy breifly as I don’t have very much knowledge about her so I don’t really know what I’d change but if I had to comment, I’d say that if a mime is shot out by any player, reduce the aoe by 20% and increase the time it takes to throw a mine by 20%


(Meerkats) #10

There are a variety of fixes that can be applied to prox mines to make them less bullshit.

I’ve always advocated for prox mines to be reworked to Battlefield style claymores. The biggest changes involved would be changing prox mines from omnidirectional to unidirectional ( detection forward 150 degrees instead of 360 degrees, explosion forward 180 degrees instead of 360 degrees ) in addition to giving them some actual height making them easier to disarm from negative elevation.


(hoyes) #11

I sort of agree on the damage nerf to the nade(increases the amount of skill required for the kill from full hp but would make it unable to one shot thunder, and thunder doesn’t need buffs). I would rather his speed be raised again, instead of hp buffed. Fragger should be able to tank a bit and I think right now is the sweet spot. His hp right now gives him still a good advantage in a 1v1, but at least makes it possible for him to be beaten by most weapons in a fight. The one thing I dislike about 130hp though is he gets one shot by the moa. TBH I don’t think he should be able to get one shot by snipers(maybe bar hunter) at all.


(STARRYSOCK) #12

I’ve never played Battlefield, but you have to consider that besides the toss-and-shoot strategy, mines are pretty useless against decent players in pretty much any situation. Nerfing their damage radius and their hitbox primarily impacts their usage as a mine, which is already underpreforming.
It’s better to focus on the problem of toss-and-shoot rather than just changing everything for the hell of it. We’ve gotten used to mines as they are, and they’re not hard to avoid.
Not like toss-and-shoot is really unbalanced either, it puts the proxy in a hell of a lot of danger, it just feels annoying when you do get blown up by one. But honestly when it comes down to it, it’s not much worse than a surprise molotov in the face or any other number of things that can happen


(kopyright) #13

It makes up for the total lack of impact the mines normally have after getting nerfed. These days you have to be lucky to kill any merc with a non-shot mine.


(STARRYSOCK) #14

Exactly. Not like it’s too hard to avoid either, since proxy is so squishy. Either kill the proxy, walk between her and the mine to bodyblock her from shooting it, or just leave when you see a proxy rushing.
It can be annoying when you do get blown up by one, but it’s not really any worse than a firesupport throwing an explosive at you from around a corner.


(Your worst knifemare.) #15

Or shoot the mine as its leaving her hand. As long as you aren’t too squishy you should live while she dies a shameful death to her own mine.


(STARRYSOCK) #16

If your aim is that good you might as well go for her head lol


(kopyright) #17

But what about the shame?